Some thoughts on effects pedal design and manufacture, at large

[jishnudg]

So a day of browsing through youtube videos of Boutique pedals led me to ask myself these somewhat random questions, and I thought I'd share them, see what everyone here thinks of it....I don't really know the innards of commercial guitar effects manufacturing, so I'm sorry if my remarks are completely off the mark...

1. Why is the stompbox market completely saturated with small/mid sized companies, rolling out thousands of pedal designs, yet in terms of the numbers, giants like Boss etc are still ruling the roost with the same four or six designs? How do buyers and users (who may not be into DIY/pedal hacking themselves) perceive the market?

2. How do these small/mid sized companies hope to scale or compete with the big players ? Or do they ? Given the number of different brands that're doing similar work (if not identical), how are the entrepreneurs (who have bootstrapped and set up these operations with a lot of difficulty, no doubt) hoping to stick around and make enough profits to be able to take their projects forward?

3. Basically, how has the guitar effects industry not imploded yet ?

[Mark Hammer]

This is far from a definitive or authoritative response, but...

The stompbox "industry" is one that easily permits entry at the smallest of levels, both in terms of space requirements and outlay for inventory, tools, etc..  You can be a "stompbox manufacturer" in your dorm room at college.  You don't even have to paint your boxes or make your own PCBs.  And, with the internet, your customers are not confined to whomever can walk, drive, or bus to your storefront.  If you have 2 customers in every country in the world you will have moved a few hundred units, not too shabby at all.  And since some of the actual labour can be farmed out to jobbers, it's the sort of thing you can do as a supplementary revenue stream - it doesn't HAVE to be your full-time job.  Doubtless, some of them think they might like to compete with the big guns one day, but many are content just to see a pedal of theirs being used by someone they respect.

The larger companies, like Boss, DOD/Digitech, EHX, and Behringer, have well-established local and international distribution, but there will always be a market, albeit a small one, for folks who want something different, JUST to be different.

[R.G.]

To add a bit to what Mark said;

The very low barriers to entry are the thing that drives it, along with the very, very, very easy availability of information and expertise on how to build pedals and the historically insane ease of free access to advertising that the internet provides. Without the free advertising on the internet, the DIY cottage effects industry would not exist.

However, actually making enough money to pay for your labor is extremely difficult. I doubt that 5% of all the pedal makers in the world make over $10 per hour of their labor by making pedals if an accurate accounting of time and income is made. The ones that can actually make a living in terms of paying rent, car payments and food after costs are taken out are rarer still. I achieved my life's ambition by working for one of the very few companies that is stable in the business.

I actually think of the pedal market as much like the vanity publishing business, where "authors" pay to have their golden words printed so they "get published". Real survival in terms of making money and supporting a family by making pedals is a rarified level. I can only count maybe half a dozen companies that started on a kitchen table and now support the owner and perhaps an employee or two, and that's over a nearly 25 year perspective. Others may make some money, but it's very much more making some extra money for fun, not a going business.

How do these small/mid sized companies hope to scale or compete with the big players ? Or do they ?

I don't know if they do hope to scale up and compete with the biggies, but they have no real chance of doing so. It'll be like getting to play pro football or pro basketball. Lots of people mess with it, maybe over many years, but dramatically few people ever get to the major leagues after all that work and training. The profusion of folks who have no real chance of making a going business actually make it worse for the fewer people who might have good ideas and experience. The throngs of zero-profit "companies" sell stuff at such low prices that the others that might do well can't make a profit either.]

Given the number of different brands that're doing similar work (if not identical), how are the entrepreneurs (who have bootstrapped and set up these operations with a lot of difficulty, no doubt) hoping to stick around and make enough profits to be able to take their projects forward?

I think it's like looking at a river. The river looks the same, but yet the actual water you look at is never the same twice. All the streams and floods of folks who learn to solder one week, buy cans of spray paint and decals the next week and then put up the web site and start referring to themselves in the first person plural ("we") flows like water, with many of them bailing out, but being replaced by the next flood of people with bright eyes and hopes.

Basically, how has the guitar effects industry not imploded yet?

I don't know. I watched in implode back in the 70s, go through a death valley in the 80s and a renaissance in the 90s and become the lemming-stampede it is now.

I love it. I'd do this even if there was only me messing with it - and that's how it felt in the 80s. But it's a hard, nasty, vicious business environment today. I keep expecting an implosion. Maybe it's the river of newbies flowing into the guitar effects scene that keeps it alive.

[Bipolar Joe]

I don't build a lot (Because I'm just learning properly, now), but I do love effects. I make noisey experimental music, so the sounds I want most tend to not come made by Boss (Or I have to circuit bend it to do what I want). A few years ago, when DIY pedals started appearing proper for lay-folk like myself, I was amazed and upset at the same time. I thought "Wow, these dudes can make their own effects exactly how they want them!" Then after looking at a whole lot, I thought "Wow, these dudes all just want to make the exact same pedal for 'Vintage Tone™.'" I saw a few small people making some really unique and majestic things, but for every one of those, there were fifteen people making something completely redundant.

Why companies like Boss, so on, are ruling the market is because it's a brand game. Boss are great at getting stores to stock their gear, to the point where my old local music store only sold pedals by Boss. I also think that when you're using a pedal extensively, you want to be able to grab another if it breaks down. You buy an Earthquaker Devices Hax, it breaks. X years from now, will they even still be being made? Will the price of them be extortionate because of that? Stuff like this is why King Buzzo uses easy to find gear. You roll into any guitar store, chances they'll have what he's missing. That causes a roll on effect, where you have people buying the gear their idol uses (Check the prices of the DOD Meat Box after Sunno))) appeared). This guy uses this pedal, so I will buy this pedal. Recording people for cash, you hear a lot of things like that.

Little one-man shows like Montreal Assembly, Copilot FX, blah blah, seem to make gear aimed at a really niche market (I can't think of any practical musical use for Probability Of A Fax Machine) so I don't think they want to compete with the big business gear makers. Other builders have build their own niche (Devi Ever is a good example, I guess). A pretty loyal fanbase, and soon I think a few of these people will experience a big break out some day.

I was recently talking about a now extinct gear company called TraumaTone, who made messed up noisey instruments for messed up noisey sounds. You can't buy any of the stuff any more, and only very short runs were done because the return was just not worth it. Either you make gear you know most people will want and set up shop, or you make gear you hope people will like and pray anyone buys them. There's also the fact that electronics is seen as wizardry. I'm only now learning that the basics I need to know are actually really easy, once something clicks. It's like Pure Data. It looks like hard core science, when it's actually Lego. Maybe K'Nex. It won't ever explode, because either the user doesn't give a shit or potential makers are too confounded by it.

I dunno how to end this post, so here is a unicorn playing guitar.

[cmdrfun]

Watching the "Fuzz" documentary pretty much killed my ambitions to do anything in this realm, beyond a few customs for local people every once in a while.

[Mark Hammer]

I recommend to the OP to go over to the effectsdatabase site and read the interviews with the makers: http://www.effectsdatabase.com/interviews/brands

[smallbearelec]

I take some blame (or credit) happily: The chaos is--at least partly--my fault.

When my wife and I visited Alaska a few years ago, we saw an exhibit on the Gold Rush at one of the museums in Skagway. As I recall, it said that some 20,000 people came to the Yukon to prospect; maybe 50 actually made money. The notes made a point that some of the enduring fortunes were made by those who founded supply companies.

You could compare me in my beginnings to one of the many who thought he would beat the odds and make money as a miner (pedal-maker), until reality set in and it became clear just how godawfully difficult mining (manufacturing) is. So I started a supply company. As R. G. has noted, the Internet had become ubiquitous enough by the time I entered that I could put up a trial balloon (so-to-speak) for almost no money and reach a large potential market. The response made it clear that there was an unmet need, and that I could scale up from the kitchen table while still having a life. In time, I figured out that I could enable small manufacturers by getting specialty parts made-to-order and also use those to make some pedals as I wanted to (R. G.'s "vanity publishing", and marketing come-ons to the DIY community).

Mine was not a business model that anyone would likely plan out on a Gantt chart, but its unexpected twists and turns have been part of the fascination, as have been the explosion of DIY, the emergence of numerous ancillary businesses and those hundreds of commercial pedal-makers.

Yours In Continued Growly Noise-making
SD

[PRR]

> ....small/mid sized companies, rolling out thousands of pedal designs
> giants like Boss etc are still ruling the roost with the same four or six designs?
> How do these small/mid sized companies hope to scale or compete with the big players?

You answer your own question, no?

If a buyer wants one of the Basic Six Pedals, he comes home with a BOSS or E-H. 

If a buyer wants "something different", there's hundreds of bedroom/garage builders doing "different" effects.

The markets don't merge any more than GM competed with George Barris. You want a basic Chevy/Buick/Caddy, you buy GM. You want a Batmobile, Barris would make you one (or five).

And as has been said, making cars needs a large shop and heavy tools, plus enough work to pay the rent and tools-bills. Pedals is an old desk and home handyperson tooling, often already in hand for hanging knicknacks and fixing doors.

> hoping to stick around and make enough profits to...

Any serious audio student knows: all audio companies go BROKE.

At best, they haven't gone out of business yet.

Yes, this is true of all companies. Look at GM or Chrysler: bailed-out. Look at AT&T: while the name is still around, the old AT&T was totally busted-up in the 1980s and bad decisions in the 1990s.

But audio companies mostly go broke fairly quickly.

Most small-audio builders will be doing something else in 5 years.

James Lansing went broke early and often. JBL did better after his passing. And JBL is now just a brand of Harmon. As are nearly all "classic audio brands".

There is a dead hi-fi shop near me with an impressive sign-post of now-vanished brands.

Bose has done well for a very long time. We shall see if it thrives now he is gone.

Steve has a point: in the Gold Rush, food and jeans and whores did better than 99% of the miners.

[jishnudg]

I agree with the drift of what everyone here is saying....it's absolutely true - - the role the internet has played, and the ease of procurement and construction and advertising makes stompboxes a seemingly easy product to market...so, in the face of such a saturated market - -I suppose the most important question that boutique builders (even the ones working out of their dorm rooms) should asking themselves is " how can I add value to this market ? " - - - since it seems that the essentials (bypass switches, enclosures) are so easily available, the only way to get any mileage is to crank the other stuff - -  - ( "add value" (corner stone of many a Seth  Godin article ).....its true that Companies like Devi Ever and Zvex have found some niches and have honed their craft in these areas, but what about some others - - ?  I guess R.G would be an excellent authority on this, having been at Visual Sound - -  - how have they consciously tried to differentiate themselves as a brand?

Thanks again, everyone, for contributing to this thread - - - I'm been reading up a bit on marketing lately (part of my day job; nothing very exciting on its own)  and this seems like the perfect way for me to combine learning with my hobbies

[Digital Larry]

Don't forget, Devi Ever sold off her company recently to Dwarfcraft Devices.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devi_ever_:_fx

I've got some pedal ideas that I think are unique, but I also have put a lot of effort into making a tool that many people could use in pursuit of their own DSP creations.  I just have not figured out how to make money on it, not that I really care.  Part of the reason I don't care is that I know it would be impossible!    

[Mark Hammer]

I've said it more times here than I care to count: you'll never get rich making fuzzboxes - you might make some money if you're a good businessman who just happens to make fuzzboxes.

Wasn't it in one of the Freakonomics books where the authors noted just how many "drug dealers" were still living in their parents' basement?

[Philippe]

a guitar fxs user has 3 choices... (1) buy a mass-produced pedal ala boss, ibanez, digitech, et al; (2) purchase a boutique (albeit expensive) effect built by a reputable manufacturer; or diy the effect if the schematic(s) & parts are available. it's as simple as that.

[GGBB]

I see the "stompbox market" as two separate markets - the boutique market and the mainstream market.  They do overlap, but for the most part, none of the boutique manufacturers are taking direct aim at the big mainstream players like BOSS.  They are filling a niche or sub-market that wants one or more of higher quality, true bypass, mojo appeal, retro look, vintage sound, unusual offerings, etc.  That's not to say that boutique offerings always deliver on those kinds of promises, but those are the typical marketing angles.  Some of the bigger players go after the boutique market to some degree - EH, MXR, Danelectro, Pro Co Sound (maybe not really a big player), etc.  EH is an interesting one - not sure whether they are a big mainstream player or a boutique player that has gotten about as big as a boutique player could get.

I can't imagine anyone intentionally starting out as a boutique pedal maker with designs on becoming something like BOSS.  EH maybe, but probably more like Analog Man or Wampler.  Those are two examples of what I would consider boutique success stories, to the point where they are stretching the bounds of what boutique means (if it even has any actual definition).

Regardless of the product, there are always market niches that the mainstream players don't fill, and there are always challengers who think they can make a go of it in that niche.  The vast majority fail or give up early on, a few last a little while, and very very few actually succeed.  And it is rarely just the product itself that determines success or failure.  The food industry is full of this kind of thing - how many different brands of gourmet salsa or BBQ sauce have you seen over the last few years?  Pedals are no different than anything else in this regard.

[Mark Hammer]

Both Analogman and Wampler started out advertising and doing mods.  So did Keeley, and I imagine a host of other folks I'm unaware of.  Once they had established some credibility as having a good head for being able to make pedals do "better" things, it was only a matter of time before people started asking "Can you make me a pedal that does X?", and before Mike, Brian, and Robert started thinking about putting all their accumulated good ideas into a new and unique product that targeted a niche.

IN fact, I think if you read a lot of the interviews on the effectsdatabase, you'll see that a great many began in a similar fashion, rather than one day deciding hey wanted to make pedals, and launching a line of them.

[slacker]

I wonder where people draw the line between boutique and mainstream these days, companies like Zvex, Strymon, Earthquaker and many others are real companies, employing people, making money, you can buy their stuff in big mainstream stores. Obviously in terms of sales they're never going to compete with the likes of Roland but there's a massive gulf between them and the kid in his basement with a soldering iron and a website. I'm not sure the simple model of the big 3 or 4 and everyone else works.

[Keeb]

1. Why is the stompbox market completely saturated with small/mid sized companies, rolling out thousands of pedal designs, yet in terms of the numbers, giants like Boss etc are still ruling the roost with the same four or six designs? How do buyers and users (who may not be into DIY/pedal hacking themselves) perceive the market?

Before I went into building effects I didn't know about all these small effects companies. I knew a wah was built by dunlop or morley. Boss, ibanez made the others. The small companies don't have the advertising. Also, the big brands have the effects that "set the standard": big muff, crybaby, tube screamer.

2. How do these small/mid sized companies hope to scale or compete with the big players ? Or do they ? Given the number of different brands that're doing similar work (if not identical), how are the entrepreneurs (who have bootstrapped and set up these operations with a lot of difficulty, no doubt) hoping to stick around and make enough profits to be able to take their projects forward?

I don't think they compete because they have different customers... Those are looking for the "perfect, germanium, mojo fuzz" can't get it from boss or ibanez.

3. Basically, how has the guitar effects industry not imploded yet ?

I think a lot of builders/smaller companies have a tough time making money... Like PRR mentioned, I think a lot of builders can't rely on it full time and others might go belly up after a couple of years. Also, the the players that chase that elusive perfect fuzz or whatever tend to never find it... Think "brown sound". However, they are never quite happy with just one fuzz... So they end buying a lot of pedals.

[tubegeek]

All the streams and floods of folks who learn to solder one week, buy cans of spray paint and decals the next week and then put up the web site and start referring to themselves in the first person plural ("we") flows like water, with many of them bailing out, but being replaced by the next flood of people with bright eyes and hopes.

We feel somewhat insulted but we'll try not to take it personally, er, collectively.

[garcho]

There is no "pedal industry". There are ruins of the audio industry standing tall enough to give a couple lucky survivors some scraps of security, and 2 or 3 happen to be pedal makers.

[R.G.]

We feel somewhat insulted but we'll try not to take it personally, er, collectively.

Note to readers: I didn't mean *you*. I meant those other people.

[jishnudg]

There is no "pedal industry". There are ruins of the audio industry standing tall enough to give a couple lucky survivors some scraps of security, and 2 or 3 happen to be pedal makers.

That was really quite poetic