Which Big Muff or other variant would you recommend me?

[Les Paul Lover]

For my next build, i want to build a Big Muff type circuit from scratch.

I have a Way Huge Swollen Pickle, and I love some of the things it does, but don't like the tone / filter stack much. Quick list of what I love and not love so much:

- Love the big beefy mean fuzz
- Cuts through brilliantly, great lead tone when set right, sustains like crazy
- Love the fuzz, not the distortion setting
- too many knobs - I like the volume, sustain knob, but I have the crunch knob always on the fuzz side, the internal trim pots are fiddly, and I absolutely hate the scoop and filter control. I find I always have it set in mids rich zone and find anything outside that zone is too scooped, are losing b all the treble or lows.

So, essentially, I'd love a Big Muff circuit that's fuzzy, with great sustain for leads, mids rich but not to the detriment of lows and highs.




What would you recommend me and why?

[Mike Burgundy]

While your question is rich in detail, the answer will still be "the one you like best"

Start with a breadboard, slap a muff on there, and tinker away.
There's a schem out there that has a lot of info on which component causes what, find that and use that for a guide. There's a mod to bump up the mids, also should be findable here. I know I like lower gain transistors, but that's me. Go wild, ignore the schem and just muck about for a bit and see what that does for the sound. Some really cool pedals have been invented more or less this way!
A breadboard is a brilliant tool for finding the sound you want!

[WhiskeyMadeMeDoIt]

While your at it try the 22/7 from RunOffGroove. It's a nice CMOS version of the big muff pi.

[Satan Of Saturn]

http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/17-distortion/108-big-muff-pi

GGG Tuned Version
Though I havent built that yet but planning to make coz it claims its a hybrid of all the versions...
and again its GGG project, u can mod it very easily

[WhiskeyMadeMeDoIt]

The 22/7 is like that it has an "average" BMP sound and has a switch to change the tone between the various types

[Philippe]

run with the 'triangle' (original) version. it's smooth & versatile. funny thing though...a bmp can get tiresome & monotonous if used excessively.

[Jdansti]

I like JMK's Scuba Muff. It's basically a Muff Diver with switched clipping diodes and LEDs to give you some variety.

http://jmkpcbs.com/product/scuba-muff/

Whatever you choose, I recommend experimenting with different clipping diodes and LEDs to see what you like. I personally think LEDs provide a fatter sound.

[deadastronaut]

like mike said..


breadboard...tweak to taste.

[Les Paul Lover]

While your question is rich in detail, the answer will still be "the one you like best"

Start with a breadboard, slap a muff on there, and tinker away.
There's a schem out there that has a lot of info on which component causes what, find that and use that for a guide. There's a mod to bump up the mids, also should be findable here. I know I like lower gain transistors, but that's me. Go wild, ignore the schem and just muck about for a bit and see what that does for the sound. Some really cool pedals have been invented more or less this way!
A breadboard is a brilliant tool for finding the sound you want!

I'm still a very amateurish pedal diyer, and whilst breadbording sounds fun, it's not something I feel comfortable with yet. I only have 2 completed builds yet, and still have a bit (or a lot) to learn before to start breadbording, a BMP would be too big for me to understand much about it perhaps?

I feel it is a bit daunting and should perhaps start with simple boosts 1st? Or do you guys reckon that even with limited experience I could learn about gain / fuzz structures and tone stack at ones?

I'm a keen diyer, but through my renovating life, I've learnt that biting on more than you can chew usually leafs yo headaches....

[Les Paul Lover]

Will check out the 22/7 version thanks!

run with the 'triangle' (original) version. it's smooth & versatile. funny thing though...a bmp can get tiresome & monotonous if used excessively.

I agree with that, but the swollen pickle works well as a lead tone for some of my songs - I just don't like the tone stack.

May be I should start from there - I'm not very good with schematics yet, would the tone stack be easy to isolate and change?

What other tone stack or on.other Bmp variants?

[Les Paul Lover]

I like JMK's Scuba Muff. It's basically a Muff Diver with switched clipping diodes and LEDs to give you some variety.

http://jmkpcbs.com/product/scuba-muff/

Whatever you choose, I recommend experimenting with different clipping diodes and LEDs to see what you like. I personally think LEDs provide a fatter sound.

Good point - the swollen pickle has an internal trim pot to.change between both. I don't know which one I've set it on,  but is sounds smooth and fuzzy as opposed to edgy and distorted...

[aron]

I would simulate changes with the Duncan tone stack and try and mod the pedal to be closer to what you want:
http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/

Aron

[duck_arse]

I'm still a very amateurish pedal diyer, and whilst breadbording sounds fun, it's not something I feel comfortable with yet. I only have 2 completed builds yet, and still have a bit (or a lot) to learn before to start breadbording, a BMP would be too big for me to understand much about it perhaps?

I feel it is a bit daunting and should perhaps start with simple boosts 1st? Or do you guys reckon that even with limited experience I could learn about gain / fuzz structures and tone stack at ones?

exactly this. if you look at a simple single boost, like an lpb1 or something, and compare it to the big muff circuit, you'll see a pattern emerge. if you get a breadboard, and put a simple boost on it, then copy that, now 2 stages. add some diodes. now copy that stage, 3 stages. the tone stack is just some resistors and some caps, nothing to fright. then, another boost stage!

and there it is, a string of 4 boosts, call it a big muff. it is much easier to learn with a breadboard than it is  to paint-by-numbers.

if you go here:
http://www.bigmuffpage.com/Big_Muff_Pi_versions_schematics_part1.html
you will find all the versions you could imagine.

[Les Paul Lover]

I'm still a very amateurish pedal diyer, and whilst breadbording sounds fun, it's not something I feel comfortable with yet. I only have 2 completed builds yet, and still have a bit (or a lot) to learn before to start breadbording, a BMP would be too big for me to understand much about it perhaps?

I feel it is a bit daunting and should perhaps start with simple boosts 1st? Or do you guys reckon that even with limited experience I could learn about gain / fuzz structures and tone stack at ones?

exactly this. if you look at a simple single boost, like an lpb1 or something, and compare it to the big muff circuit, you'll see a pattern emerge. if you get a breadboard, and put a simple boost on it, then copy that, now 2 stages. add some diodes. now copy that stage, 3 stages. the tone stack is just some resistors and some caps, nothing to fright. then, another boost stage!

and there it is, a string of 4 boosts, call it a big muff. it is much easier to learn with a breadboard than it is  to paint-by-numbers.

if you go here:
http://www.bigmuffpage.com/Big_Muff_Pi_versions_schematics_part1.html
you will find all the versions you could imagine.

Thank you!

Been spending the last few days reading it all.... And trying to understand these schematics.

I don't understand that tone stack at all.

Why does it filter out the mids so much? Could somebody point me out to tone stacks that would cut the treble or low end for me to compare and try to understand?

How does one make a 3 band tone stack?

That's all very interesting.for sure!!!

[nocentelli]

I would simulate changes with the Duncan tone stack and try and mod the pedal to be closer to what you want:
http://www.duncanamps.com/tsc/

Aron

[pinkjimiphoton]

out of all the variants i've built or tried, the rams head version with an added mid control is the best sounding and most versatile (imo)

[jtn191]

The reason the mids are scooped is that the tone stack is in effect a blendable low cut--high cut filter. Electronically, both those together equals a band-cut or mid-scoop.

My faves based on hearing them:
Triangle- good for solos
Russian- lots of low end
Tri dirty booster- off-brand variant. Best of all worlds
Skreddy P19- smooth, good for solos/Pink Floyd

[jtn191]

Also, mod the tone stack for more mids...permanently as opposed to a mids control...
-If both caps are equal, both resistors are equal=mid setting is flat. Making them closer to being equal reduces mid scoop but retains a slight scoop.

Use both ~39k resistors and 0.01uF caps for flat response.

-If the capacitor in the low pass/high cut (same thing) portion of the filter is about double the value of the high pass/low cut= mid hump is the result

look up "beavis big muff tone stack" for more info.

[Les Paul Lover]

This forum is great!!!!!!


I;ve played with that tone stack software - it's brilliant - mind you I can't find the R4 on any of the schematics from the Big Muff web site?

In any case, I've entered the tone stck value of the Swollen Pickle, it's one of the most scooped out there. I'm glad I could hear it and it always bothered me - no idea it was that bad!

From keying the values of different circuit, I think I woul dprobably like the Pharoah tone stack best - gobs of low mids sounds right up my alley, especially on my Orange amps, it should sound great!



Now that I may have decided with a tone stck to experiment with, I need to look at the fuzz circuit itself and try to understand some - I don't suppose there's a software somewhere that would show that would it?


Thank you all for your responses, I've learnt a lot (I think!!!!)!!!

[wavley]

I've had the grey knob tall skinny font russian version since it came out, which is just new cosmetics for the one that Gilmore uses.  I absolutely love it, but really only for lead tones and single note stuff, it's lack of mids isn't very good for playing anything other than Doom Metal when it comes to chord, and even then I run it into a modded English Muffin with the mids turned up.

I have another one I built with a bunch of things socketed so that I can change to different sounds when I record.  I use that schem on the web that shows what does what that was previously mentioned.  It can be a very versatile pedal.  That said, I just keep the green one on my board in the loop of my Truly Beautiful Disaster.