12 Volt Dying Battery Simulator

[Palealien]

Hi all,

First post, stoked I found this site.

I've never built a pedal before and thought I'd start out simple.

I found the below instructions on how to build a 9Volt dying battery simulator...

http://www.beavisaudio.com/Projects/DBS/

...thing is, I mainly want to use the simulator with a 12Volt fuzz pedal.

So I was wondering, apart from the need to have a 12 volt power supply (which I have), what changes, if any, are required to build a 12Volt version of this little stomp box?

I was thinking of using the series resistance build in the above instructions, and thought I might like to add an analog panel meter so I have a clearer picture of what's going on, voltage wise.

I'd really appreciate any assistance offered - as I'm sure 99% of people reading this post will have realized by now - I know next to nothing on this topic, but I am super keen to learn.

Cheers.

Palealien

[commathe]

It will need no adaptation.

[Palealien]

Hey thanks heaps Commathe.

Appreciate the advice.

Pumped now about ordering the required parts and getting started on the build.

[bluebunny]

. . . I am super keen to learn.

You came to the right place.      Welcome along.  And good luck with the build.

[Palealien]

Hey again,

So I never started building this pedal, as soon after I made my original post, I came to suspect my wife had purchased a similar pedal for me as a gift.

Turns out this was not the case after all.

Which is good - as now I get the satisfaction of building the pedal for myself.

I've given it some more thought, and was wondering:

Would it be hard to fit an expression pedal jack to a pedal such as this? I'd love to be able to change exactly how dead my battery sounded on the fly, during a song.

As always, any thoughts, advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers.

[italianguy63]

It's easy.. it just goes in-line with the battery.  MC

[tone seeker]

 Yea, the Beavis site,  shows how to put the circuit inline, and inside with the effect.

I built a couple of the pedals, than used a tiny digital readout display, that tells me
exactly how much voltage is going to the pedal. The only down fall, is after using the
Digital readout, it dropped the output voltage to 8.6 volts. It has to have power, for it to
light up! But it works.

[Palealien]

Thanks for the responses guys, really appreciate it.

Anyone know of a reliable parts supplier who's based in Australia?

[Buzz]

Hi.

Here's a couple...

http://www.pedalpartsaustralia.com/

http://www.diyguitarpedals.com.au/shop/

[duck_arse]

more, neither pedal specific:

for odd parts and specials, rockby in melbourne:
https://www.rockby.com.au/

or oatley electronics, maybe, in sydney

and for general/replacement parts:
http://www.wagneronline.com.au

[Palealien]

Cheers,

I'd much prefer to buy parts locally wherever possible.

Love your profile photo, by the way, Duck Arse.

[Mark Hammer]

This is not meant as a criticism of anyone or anything, but rather a caveat.

Most "dying battery" simulators do not simulate a dying battery.  The dying battery effect would appear to be a product of a battery that is able to provide a short burst of current, but gives up easily in response to big transients.  The reduced voltage is only one parameter of what changes in the battery as it ages.  Truthfully, it is a more complex multi-dimensional phenomenon.  Dying battery simulators (and the Beavis Audio one is a perfect example of such) tend to provide a stable voltage and current, that mimics one aspect.

So, "starving" a circuit with such simulators can be musically useful and valid, and yield interesting and novel sounds, but the "dying battery effect" is a whole other thing.  This is not unlike the way that a phase-shifter or flanger or chorus can capture part of what a rotating speaker does, but leaves out a number of other equally or more important parameters.  In the case of weakened carbon-zinc batteries, it is the dynamic response to transients that simple simulation circuits do not capture.  To my mind, it would likely take a more intelligent input-dependent digital model to capture what weakened carbon-zinc batteries actually do.  Such things may well be out there, but I'm not familiar with any, myself.

[Buzz]

Another supplier in Oz for ya, nearly forgot about this one but just ordered some bits so here you go...

https://core-electronics.com.au/store/index.php/

They are not pedal specific but they have a lot of stuff you'll need.

They post out real quick. Some good prices on there too.

[Palealien]

So I finished this pedal a while back now.

Thanks to all who contributed advice, really appreciate it.

I've found I can get some pretty interesting results with the pedal - I use it before my Penny Pedals Radio Lo-Fi pedal - It makes notes/chords decintegrate nicely and provides that nice 'radio that's not quite tuned in to the station properly' kind of effect. Not for everyone I guess, but I certainly think there's a place for that kind of thing.

[Ice-9]

This is not meant as a criticism of anyone or anything, but rather a caveat.

Most "dying battery" simulators do not simulate a dying battery.  The dying battery effect would appear to be a product of a battery that is able to provide a short burst of current, but gives up easily in response to big transients.  The reduced voltage is only one parameter of what changes in the battery as it ages.  Truthfully, it is a more complex multi-dimensional phenomenon.  Dying battery simulators (and the Beavis Audio one is a perfect example of such) tend to provide a stable voltage and current, that mimics one aspect.

So, "starving" a circuit with such simulators can be musically useful and valid, and yield interesting and novel sounds, but the "dying battery effect" is a whole other thing.  This is not unlike the way that a phase-shifter or flanger or chorus can capture part of what a rotating speaker does, but leaves out a number of other equally or more important parameters.  In the case of weakened carbon-zinc batteries, it is the dynamic response to transients that simple simulation circuits do not capture.  To my mind, it would likely take a more intelligent input-dependent digital model to capture what weakened carbon-zinc batteries actually do.  Such things may well be out there, but I'm not familiar with any, myself.

Just a thought on this, One way it might be possible to add to the dying battery idea could be to use an op amp circuit in the signal path and rectify its output in the same way an autowah would do or a compressor does. This output could be used to control a variable resistance circuit which in turn can drop the voltage from the PSU/Batt on trasients in the signal.

[Digital Larry]

Most "dying battery" simulators do not simulate a dying battery.  The dying battery effect would appear to be a product of a battery that is able to provide a short burst of current, but gives up easily in response to big transients. 

That could also be the result of a large capacitor after the battery, no?  And the main effects (from a simplified model perspective) of the battery dying are that the internal voltage goes down (like you might measure with a DMM) but more than anything else the internal impedance starts to go way up (as measured by short circuit current capability).

Keep in mind I don't know anything really about dying batteries, but as usual that doesn't stop me from making idiotic remarks on the topic.

[duck_arse]

So I finished this pedal a while back now.

we will need to see pictures to confirm this, I believe there is a thread for photos of completed builds somewhere.

[Palealien]

Hey Duck Arse,

Here's a picture, as requested - thought I'd run with a battery theme for the design, thought it came out OK for a first attempt.

Cheers again for your advice when I first started the thread.

[Palealien]

OK, so looks like I failed to post the image correctly.

Anyone able to tell me how to correctly add an picture to a post.

In the mean time here's a link to the image on my flickr.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24300722@N05/15546766074/

[Ice-9]

Looks great, I do like the never ready battery look.