Taking nut off foot switch (for more height) bad practise?

[MrStab]

hi,

this is probably a straightforward engineering question, but i'm not a straightforward engineer. or an engineer at all.

say i needed just a tiny bit more height in an enclosure, would removing the "inner" nut on ye olde blue 3PDT compromise sturdiness at all? less grip? other forseeable problems? i'd be using one of those tooth washers, if that makes a difference.
i know the less switch sticking out the top, the better, to avoid people hitting it from weird angles, but the alternative is an oversized enclosure or more board space/offboard wiring with Milennium Bypass.

i've used a lower-profile 3PDT in a build - a black one with no obvious brand - but i can't find a consistent source of it that's local enough for me (UK).

cheers!

[armdnrdy]

I never use that nut.

[drummer4gc]

If you really torque down the nut to secure the switch to the box without the inner nut, it's possible to detach the threaded shaft from the switch body. It's not hard to do if you're an overzealous tightener like me.

[armdnrdy]

If you really torque down the nut to secure the switch to the box without the inner nut, it's possible to detach the threaded shaft from the switch body

I have an easy fix for this issue.

Don't over tighten the nut! 

Yes....one can snap off bolts, strip screw heads, etc,etc, but....you have to tighten things in a liberal manner.

[joegagan]

there is a really thin serrated washer that comes with these, correct? that would give a little mechanical buffer and extra grab without adding too much thickness?

[MrStab]

i've had a few that come without the serrated washer, Joe, but i definitely would use them even if aftermarket. i think i can imagine some kind of added protection as you describe.

i've broken one 1/4" jack by over-tightening, but that was my own fault. i guess jacks, with their single nut, are the same principle as what i'm asking here (only with more trauma expected). would you guys say it's "optional", then, as far as the switch manufacturer is concerned? it's reassuring to know that you routinely discard the nut, Larry.

[armdnrdy]

I do include the serrated/star washer that comes with the switch as Joe pointed out.

I usually tighten down the nut with a socket....by hand...without the ratchet.

[MrStab]

it's usually just a spanner for me, but that sounds like a cool idea to avoid damaging artwork.

thanks, guys - i'll build a few without the nut and do some "stress tests". should be fun. now i know it's probably not such an unorthodox thing to do.

[samhay]

If you really torque down the nut to secure the switch to the box without the inner nut, it's possible to detach the threaded shaft from the switch body. It's not hard to do if you're an overzealous tightener like me.

I've had that happen before too.

If I need more room, I use a DPDT (which is not as deep) and Millenium bypass.

[Mark Hammer]

I am of the view that it is not how far out the switch shaft and collet stick out, but rather the likelihood that the switch will be depressed in a perfect downward piston fashion.  The less it sticks out, the greater the likelihood that it will be depressed perfectly downward.  If the switch is mounted at an angle that complements how you're going to move your foot (e.g., in an angled chassis such that pivoting your foot on your heel allows the switch to be pushed at an angle perpendicular to the chassis surface), then you're also okay.  The risk of long-term damage to the switch arises when the shaft sticks out really far and you hit the switch at a bit of an angle, such that the shaft is pushed a little to the side against the collet.

At the same time, switches are cheap, and if you're the one who installed it originally, then you'll be able to install a new one too.  If $4 buys you some convenience, then do what's convenient, and accept the risk.

[MrStab]

it was actually one of your posts that got me thinking about the angle of impact, Mark. the problem is i wanna make a bunch for people - not exactly mass production, but enough that i don't wanna see too many repair jobs in my in-tray. the board, which can't really be re-shapen further, has to sit at an angle because of the switch. this prevents the use of stand-offs and is awkward to insulate.

here's a pic, FWIW - i used a tiny bit of red plastic to prevent shorts while testing:



the smaller 3PDTs i mentioned have the same height as the DPDTs, Sam - which is why i'd kill for a cheap source of em! found a manufacturer in China, but a MOQ of 1,000 and being a cheap stoner scumbag is something of a deterrent. lol

[armdnrdy]

I agree with Mark on the height versus leverage factor.

To combat this issue.....one can use low profile switches:
http://www.bitcheslovemyswitches.com/#!/~/product/category=5027572&id=33283018

[MrStab]

i totally ordered from that site just the other week, and those are the exact switches i'm referring to! absolute best-named site ever, and they delivered quite quickly! i just dunno if shipping costs for 50 or so would be problematic, so an EU-based source would be preferable.

[MrStab]

just checked - $163 USD, which is approx £95 GBP... actually, that's a steal. the one unit i've built with this has more leeway both vertically and horizontally, ie. more distance from jacks. i've been more inclined to try and make the blue 3PDTs "standard" because of their wider availability, but i may need to compromise.

[samhay]

Haven't seen 3PDTs like that - cool.
Where are the jacks going?

[armdnrdy]

just checked - $163 USD, which is approx £95 GBP... actually, that's a steal.

That is for 50 switches shipped to the U.K. correct?

[MrStab]

indeed, 50 switches +shipping. may wanna double-check, but i'm pretty sure.

the jacks are at either side of the switch. i've had to go with insulated, enclosed jacks and a separate grounding point because of switch proximity, but that actually works out neater. though i haven't tried both the small switch and insulated jacks together yet - it's possible the height of the jacks (placed on their side, kinda) could dampen the height gains with the smaller switch. i'll need to work on that.

[samhay]

OK - thought that I was looking at a pot next to the switch (although that would have been an odd placement).
If you find a European source of those 3PDTs, please let us know.

[deadastronaut]

+1 on the low profiles...very nice. i like alpha dpdt's for the same reason.  less clunky.

[MrStab]

not a cheap EU source, but the same or similar switch is part code PBS-24-302 from http://www.filn.cn/ if it helps any, though it's not listed on the site (i could post a datasheet somewhere, but dunno if that'd be okay as it was on request via. email?). maybe you could track down the part code from a distributor better than i could, Sam.

Note: a Google search produces some pictures of the wrong switch, but i'm fairly certain PBS-24-302 is the right code for the low-profile ones.