Klon Konfusion! (Sunking Ver3 - Madbean)!

[Hav]

Hey guys

So im pretty much nearing the end of building Sunking Ver 3 from Madbean.

All is good except I can't understand what is going on in the documentation!

I am trying to wire as True Bypass.

Page 4 of the build document says 'remove C3, R3, R4, R28, R29, R30 & Add RTB (1M Resistor)

Page 8 with the True Bypass Wiring Diagram says 'Remove C2, R3, R4 R26 and R27' & 'R28 should be connected to ground'...

so.....
1. Do I remove all of these??
2. What does add RTB mean?
3. R28 connected to ground - does that mean remove R28 and connect to ground? or leave R28 and connect to ground.

Ah the confusion.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Hopefully someone has done this already or can understand the build docs better than me!

Build Doc: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Sunking/docs/Sunking_ver.3.pdf

Hand Etched PCB

Thanks :-)

[armdnrdy]

1. Do I remove all of these??

It says remove them in the directions right? You are following the directions right? I'll let you make the decision on what to do here. 

2. What does add RTB mean?

I believe RTB is one of Brian's secret codes or it means Resistor True Bypass? It could be called Resistor George...it doesn't matter. The resistor is just a pull down because the true bypass switching was added. It is shown on the first schematic.

3. R28 connected to ground - does that mean remove R28 and connect to ground? or leave R28 and connect to ground.

Follow the first schematic. That is the TBP version. Note the switch at the input and the output. R28 does not go to ground. All of the info is in the build doc.

[Fender3D]

I believe RTB is one of Brian's secret codes or it means Resistor True Bypass? It could be called Resistor George...it doesn't matter

lol 
Klonfused???

[mremic01]

Hey guys

So im pretty much nearing the end of building Sunking Ver 3 from Madbean.

All is good except I can't understand what is going on in the documentation!

I am trying to wire as True Bypass.

Page 4 of the build document says 'remove C3, R3, R4, R28, R29, R30 & Add RTB (1M Resistor)

Page 8 with the True Bypass Wiring Diagram says 'Remove C2, R3, R4 R26 and R27' & 'R28 should be connected to ground'...

so.....
1. Do I remove all of these??
2. What does add RTB mean?
3. R28 connected to ground - does that mean remove R28 and connect to ground? or leave R28 and connect to ground.

Ah the confusion.

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Hopefully someone has done this already or can understand the build docs better than me!

Build Doc: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Sunking/docs/Sunking_ver.3.pdf

Hand Etched PCB

Thanks :-)

I've done two TBP Sunkings and for what it's worth, they didn't come out sounding correct when on. They worked, but they were a bit harsher than my other Klon builds. Don't know why. The Klon buffer is completely transparent and if I were you, I'd just leave it as is.

R28 is already connected to ground. In the true bypass version of the circuit, it is supposed to go between ground and the same node as lug 2 on the volume pot. In the original version, it wasn't connected to lug two directly due to the extra buffer/switching stuff that you're not using for true bypass. Since the PCB is meant for the original version, we have to make that direct connection with a jumper, or connect lug two to the switch directly and then put R28 on the switch. You could get away with putting R28 between lugs 2 and 1 of the volume pot as well, since lug 1 goes to ground.

Yes, you remove C3, R3, R4, R28, R29, R30 & add RTB (1M Resistor). Or rather, you just don't solder them in and leave those spots empty on the board. RTB is a just a pull down resistor that helps eliminate pops from the switch. You might be able to live without it, but it's safer to keep add it. See http://www.muzique.com/news/pulldown-resistors/

[armdnrdy]

Thanks for piping in.

Maybe I was being a bit too Klondestine. 

[deadastronaut]

@mremrico:   please explain 'transparent'  i see this all the time , but see different meanings too...just curious on your take on the meaning....cheers..

[Hav]

Thanks guys! Can probably tell I'm reasonably new to this, done a few builds successfully. new things keep popping up like RTB, which I would never have known how to decipher lol. Now I know it means Resistor George. ;-)

If the Klon buffer is that good maybe I should just leave it. I'll try it without TBP on this one and will give a report. I would rather it sound good than have the TBP going on.

Thanks for the help!
:-)

[mremic01]

@mremrico:   please explain 'transparent'  i see this all the time , but see different meanings too...just curious on your take on the meaning....cheers..

In this case, I mean the buffer doesn't colour your tone. I've had a few Boss pedals that made my clean signal sound a lot colder just by being in the signal path. Odd thing was that they only seemed to do that with small SS combo amps. I suspect it had something to do with the buffer's output impedance and the amps' input impedance. For awhile, before I started building pedals, I was driving myself crazy making sure every pedal I bought was either true bypass or had a transparent buffer. I bought a looper just to A/B the signal straight to the amp and the buffered clean signal. I don't worry about it as much these days, but the Klon buffer is perfect as it is. Doesn't sound at all different from a nice short cable running straight into your amp.

[deadastronaut]

cool, nice explanation...so basically a buffer that is not noticable at all....thanks,

i'll take look a that..

[vigilante397]

cool, nice explanation...so basically a buffer that is not noticable at all....thanks,

A better explanation of a transparent (I'll agree that word is overused) buffer is one that's noticeably unnoticeable. It shouldn't really add sonic characteristics to your tone, and it should be like a boost. But we all know that a bunch of true bypass pedals coupled with long cables (I'll admit I like to run around the stage a bit, 20 feet is a minimum for me) will lead to a degradation (obligatory big word ) of tone. A "transparent" buffer is one that gives you back the tone lost due to the capacitance issues of long cables and too many true bypass pedals.

[Hav]

Hey guys, so I finished it just now and it works... it sounds good, but I wasn't convinced it was what it should sound like so I did a quick IC voltage check and found that everything was perfect apart from IC1 pin 3 which is showing at 1.17 instead of what should be above 3.43...

i'm not sure if its related but also when the pedal is off, the volume is unbelievably low (the clean guitar signal)...

when its on, it can go pretty bloody loud... but even at the most minimum setting, it is almost the same volume as the pedals off posistion.

Didn't do True Bypass in the end...

Any help on why that voltage might be low would be great, and hopefully its related. I cant see any shorts, all connections are good...

Thanks :-)

[mth5044]

Measure the other side of the 1M/R2 resistor - the VB on the schematic. That should be the same voltage as pin 3 and 5 of IC2, lug 2 of the Gain1 pot, and any other place on the schematic where VB is present. They should all be at ~4.5V if your supply is at 9V. If not, you either have an incorrect value somewhere or a short.

[italianguy63]

Or maybe a cold solder joint on the supply.

[Hav]

thanks for the quick reply!

this is what my IC's are showing

wall: 9.28

IC1

4.63      9.28
4.63      4.63
1.17      4.63
0          4.46


IC2

4.64      16.50
4.64      4.63
4.57      4.64
-8.83     4.58

IC3

9.28      9.28
4.65      5.02
0           4.98
-4.35    -8.83

measuring the resistor brings 4.58, which is the same for gain 2 and IC's you said... and C18.. I can;t see anywhere else on the schematic to check :-s checked for cold solders but cant see any, any further tests I can do? So close on the first time!!

[bean]

Page 4 covers the TB mod for the manufactured board. Pg 8 gives you the info for doing the same mod for the etched board. The component numbering is slightly different on the two boards.

You pumped voltage seems on the low side at 16.5v. Not terrible, but over 17v is more typical. Your voltage on pin3 of IC1 is also on the low side. However, this could be due to your multimeter. It can form a voltage divider with the biasing resistor which makes you measure voltage lower.

[mth5044]

Quadruple check the value of R2.

[Hav]

Page 4 covers the TB mod for the manufactured board. Pg 8 gives you the info for doing the same mod for the etched board. The component numbering is slightly different on the two boards.

You pumped voltage seems on the low side at 16.5v. Not terrible, but over 17v is more typical. Your voltage on pin3 of IC1 is also on the low side. However, this could be due to your multimeter. It can form a voltage divider with the biasing resistor which makes you measure voltage lower.

Thanks for the info Brian. Didn't go down the TBP route in the end, is that why the volume is so low when pedal is off? Or is that unrelated.

Quadruple check the value of R2.

Yep it's 100% a 1M metal film resistor! :-s

[Hav]

Was just reading over Tagboardeffects :http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/klon-centaur-with-optional-bass-control.html

Seems the 1.4+V isnt too uncommon. sounds good though so I think I'll leave it, especially with Brian's explanation above.

Now the only other problem I want to solve is the very low level when pedal is off... could this be a switch problem?

[bean]

That could be a switch problem. The easiest way to find out is lift the buffered output wire from the bypass switch temporarily and connect it directly to the output to check its volume (or use an audio probe). Buffer output is usually just below unity but not by very much.

[Hav]

Hi just got back to this pedal

I have switched it for a DPDT switch, got the same problem. I think its less that the bypass is low, more that the pedal is dang loud! even at a 1mm turn of the volume its FAR louder than when bypassed..

Any ideas? Im not sure which is the buffer wire on the DPDT?

Thanks :-)