Soldering iron/tip problem?

[jwyse]

Four years ago, I bought a Xytronic 379 variable-temp soldering station.  I used the same stock tip for almost 4 years: working on several guitars, building 2 amps and at least a dozen pedals, replacing about 50 individual pickups in a Rhodes piano, and other miscellaneous projects.


I developed the habit (probably from the Xytronic manual) of turning the temp down all the way to 250C whenever I needed a short break to stuff components, cut/route wires, etc.  If I needed a 10-minute break, I turned the iron off.  I always keep the tip tinned, and use a metal-mesh-sponge, not a wet sponge.  I'm still using the original mesh sponge, but I do rotate and "fluff" it often.

Over time, I started noticing that the tip wasn't tinning very well, and there was a black area that wasn't holding solder at all.  After some research, I found that this is called 'dewetting'.  I also read some advice to turn the iron OFF for breaks, since modern temp-controlled irons can heat up to operating temp in a few seconds.  So I've started switching off whenever I took a break from actually soldering.

I bought a new Xytronic tip (slightly different shape), which lasted about a week before it was almost completely dewetted/trashed.

I did some more research, found that Hakko 900M tips were supposed to be compatible with this Xytronic, so I ordered an insanely cheap 10-pack of Hakko 900 tips from Amazon.  They had mixed but overall-great reviews, and the tips have the Hakko brand and various model numbers inscribed on them.  They are exactly the same size/shape as the Xytronic tips, and they're a perfect fit.  I've gone through two new tips so far, in just a few days each, just working on some pedals.  I knew they were cheap (buyer beware, you get what you pay for, etc), but figured it would be a cheap way to find out whether Hakko 900M tips really were compatible.

So at this point, my 4-year-old tip is still in better shape than the 3 new ones I've gone through in the last couple of weeks.

I followed the Xytronic's instructions for prepping each new tip: heat the iron to 250C (the minimum temp on this station), flood the tip with solder, and let it sit for a few minutes before raising the temp.  I usually set the temp at 600F (316C) for soldering PCB components, wires, and pot lugs; I might turn it up to 650-700F (340-370C) for soldering to the back of pots and other large lugs, or for desoldering difficult joints.


So, what the hell is going on?  Is the "turn it off whenever you're not using it" advice bad?  Do I need to replace the mesh sponge (is the flux coating worn off)?  Has the temp drifted, so the iron is actually hotter than the dial indicates?  I don't have an infrared thermometer to test it.  I'd really appreciate some suggestions and advice.

I've put the Hakko FX888D on my Christmas list for this year, but I might have to ask Santa (aka Amazon Prime) to bring it early if I keep burning through tips like this.

[duck_arse]

are those tips iron plated? what type solder you using?

I've just had to throw away a weller tip (sponge only), because the exposed part between the tip and the barrel was rusting and migrating so much. the replacement is a bugger, cold, conical, no sweet spot.

don't solder angry.

[jwyse]

I'm using 60/40 solder (0.8mm).  I tried lead-free at some point after noticing the dewetting, and I didn't like the fact that I had to run the iron even hotter.

The Xytronic tips are supposed to be iron plated.  I see now that Xytronic makes "LF" tips that have MORE iron plating for the higher temps required for lead-free solder.

I'm not sure about the cheap Hakko tips from Amazon; some of the reviews indicate that they might not be.  My Hakko tips are attracted to a magnet, if that's definitive.

[jwyse]

I found the box that the soldering station came in, and inside was a fresh spare metal sponge (which I knew I had) and an extra tip (which I had forgotten about) that I bought along with the soldering station.

I put on the new tip (the same type that came installed on the iron, Xytronic-branded), and started a new project (another JYE function generator).  I was even MORE careful than usual about keeping the tip tinned, and ran the station at a lower temp then usual (280F / 138C). I decided to quit for the night after 40 solder joints, and realizing that this kit didn't include the LCD board.  After just 40 solder joints, the new tip already has a few black areas that don't hold solder.

I'm ordering a Hakko FX888D this week.  If I'm doing anything wrong with my technique, I'd appreciate a heads-up so I don't do the same with a new soldering station.  Otherwise, I have to believe it's a problem with the station (attached/non-replaceable pencil iron), possibly running too hot (?), and hope that a new station will not have the same issue.  This station worked for about 4 years before I started seeing any signs of dewetting on the tip that came on it.  It doesn't make any sense for it to suddenly be burning through tips like this.

[PRR]

You do not say you are using FLUX CORE solder.

Electronic (rosin) flux, NOT plumber's (acid) flux.

The tip is not "flux". The magic trick is Iron (or Nickel or Chrome) plating. Plain copper makes a good tip but you have to re-file it frequently because copper dissolves in molten Tin and erodes.

Solder alone will NOT remove tarnish.

Personally I'll leave no-lead solder until they pry this last pound of LEAD out of my cold dead (or just numb?) hands.

With your history of past work, I'd suspect you have been using rosin flux core mostly-lead solders. But just pointing it out.

After initial flood (with enough smoke to know there's rosin on the iron), I'd wipe down to bare tip and flood-up again. Maybe several times on a tip that is losing its wet. Flux will bite light tarnish, but at some point you have to use mechanical scrubbing. Since the plating is thin, this should not be your coarse shoe-rasp, but the Chore-Boy or similar copper-wool scrubby (like came with the station). I like a damp rag because a hot iron will steam-clean itself. Either way you must re-tin in seconds before the clean surface oxidizes again.

And sometimes irons just get ornery. I went through some months when I could NOT get a good joint with the iron I had used for decades. The root problem was bizarre.

[greaser_au]

Consider something like this to recover your tips (we used to use stuff similar to this in the factory):   http://www.mgchemicals.com/products/solder/tip-tinner/tip-tinner-4910/ - look for 'soldering tip tinner' on ebay to find something similar near home.

The only time I have problems like these is when I 'abuse' the iron to 'drill' holes in plastic boxes - a light scrape with a box cutter blade (to remove some of the oxidisation) usually sorts it out. Make sure your temperature control is doing the right thing and isn't reading low.

Outside the box random suggestions: Is there anything else new in the local environment that might cause an oxidising environment (an open pot of pool salt/pH adjuster/chlorine, plant fertiliser or ferric chloride). High humidity/temperature - a new work location, perhaps?

david

[italianguy63]

After initial flood (with enough smoke to know there's rosin on the iron), I'd wipe down to bare tip and flood-up again. Maybe several times on a tip that is losing its wet. Flux will bite light tarnish, but at some point you have to use mechanical scrubbing. Since the plating is thin, this should not be your coarse shoe-rasp, but the Chore-Boy or similar copper-wool scrubby (like came with the station). I like a damp rag because a hot iron will steam-clean itself. Either way you must re-tin in seconds before the clean surface oxidizes again.

Mostly, I just have a piece of wet sponge I use occasionally (wipe the tip on it).  If the tarnish builds up, I scrub it off with the copper-wool scrubby and re-tin as Paul suggests.

MC

[jwyse]

Paul, MC:
Sorry, I forgot to mention that I AM using rosin-core 60/40 solder.  I tried to use some lead-free solder recently and didn't like the way it "felt".
I'll try the light scrubbing and damp rag steam cleaning.

David:
If Paul's suggestions (which don't require me to buy anything) don't work, I'll get some tip tinner and give it a shot.
I HAVE recently moved my electronics workbench from my uninsulated workshop outside (it's too hot to work out there in the summer), into my office inside.  Over the years, I've used the soldering station in several different places: workshop, office, garage, kitchen table... There aren't any chemicals around, and the humidity and temp should be more stable here in my office than the workshop or garage.

Thanks for the suggestions!

Josh

[Yazoo]

I've got the same brand if not the same model of solder station. I had a similar experience and tried cleaning the tip with (I think) isopropyl alcohol and gently buffing it but this did not work. In desperation I used some Emery paper, figuring I had nothing to lose. This did the trick and I am still using the same tip after 6 or 7 years. It does still go black on occasion. I noticed it did this after using really fine solder with an nice aromatic flux in it. When I used some lead-based solder afterwards it tinned again nicely.

[R.G.]

Interesting things to know (for me, at least) that may or may not be of any help at all.

Liquid metal electrochemistry (which is what soldering is) is COMPLICATED. Most metals can be soldered - that is, wetted by a liquid metal that has a much lower melting point - but sometimes they form complex intermetallic compounds on the surface that resist further soldering. When that happens, the only thing that works is removing the non-solderiable compound layer. The creeping black crud has the suspicious appearance of the oxide of solder-resistive intermetallics. Emery cloth is an effective removal tool.

This is complicated by the relative solubility of iron and copper in liquid tin-lead and possibly one of the many lead-free solders. Copper makes the best soldering "iron" tip. However, solid copper is slightly soluble in liquid tin-lead, and so using a copper tip means that the tip is slowly dissolved away and deposited with the solder into joints. This is prevented in medium and high-quality soldering iron tips by plating the copper tip with iron, which has a much lower thermal conductivity than copper, but is hardly soluble in liquid tin/lead at all. This is what is responsible for long life soldering iron tips that work well.

Cheap tips will often ditch copper for something else that's cheaper than copper, as copper is well on its way to becoming a semi-precious metal. Heat transfer suffers. The liquid electrochemistry of what is actually used is then ... unknown.

A tub of rosin flux is good for cleaning. Dip the tip cold into the goo, turn the iron on and when it's good and smoking, start wiping and re-dipping. This gets all the stuff off that will come off with modest effort. If that doesn't work, go for emery cloth.

If you have the nerve, take a new tip, sand it down to bare non-solder metal, then silver solder it with a propane torch. Silver solder wets well, does not melt at tin-lead temperatures, and is less soluble than copper. Don't know about the relative solubility to iron.

[davent]

I bought some Weller Tip Activator, tinner/conditioner from Digikey which has been doing a good job of reviving decrepit tips for me. Tiny little tin and, just noticed the other day it's lead free, as are all the other brands i checked, while i'm using Kester 63/37 leaded solder. Digikey has a few different brands

Weller commercial, no affiliation!

[jwyse]

I decided to treat myself to a new Hakko FX888D soldering station, so I haven't really put any work into the other iron/tips (although I intend to, just to keep a decent soldering station on my other workbench).

This Hakko has a "default" temp of 750F/400C, which seems A LOT hotter than the temps I normally use. I changed the temp/presets down to 600F, and it still liquefies solder INSTANTLY when I touch it to an existing joint.  I guess this means it's much more efficient than what I'm used to, and/or it's still ridiculously hot.

A mere 22 solder joints later after powering this iron on for the very first time, I've got this.  Solder doesn't stick to it.  Is that copper showing?!?  I've tinned it frequently, cleaned it (mostly with the cleaning "wire", then resorting to a wet sponge), and always tinned it before setting it down.


WHAT. THE. FUZZFACE.

I don't have any emery cloth on hand, so I need to go get some, or use 600 grit sandpaper, super-fine steel wool, or green Scotch-brite sponge -- would any of those work, without damaging the plating?

I'm not new at this, I swear.    It's only recently that I've had this problem -- and with two different irons -- and suddenly, it's a BAD problem.  I've re-read basic soldering tips to make sure I didn't bump my head and forget something important... but I think I'm doing everything I should be.  Is there anything environmental that I should check?  Like I mentioned, I've recently relocated my "workbench" to my office in the house, from the workshop outside.  Seems like the temp, humidity, etc. should be much more stable/favorable here, than out there.

I'm almost at my wit's end with this.  (where's the head-bashing animated emoticon?)

[italianguy63]

It's solder gnomes.  They steal the tinning from the tip while you sleep.

Jimbo (Mustachio) had some Kokopelli get loose on his workbench once... I will have to try to find the link to the pic.

The common denominater here may be the solder.  Have you tried other solder??

[jwyse]

Good point, I guess that's the variable I've been mostly ignoring (aside from the fact that it's leaded, flux core).  I DID recently run out of my old RadioShack 60/40 solder (around the same time these problems started), so I got this:

"Super Solder"

...perhaps not really THE BEST FLUX IN CORE ??     Anybody here have experience with this stuff?  It's new to me, but the Amazon reviews were good.  I don't have a local source for solder, other than RadioShack.  If this is crap, can you guys suggest another brand?

I do have small amount of RadioShack lead-free solder here; I'll try to finish the current PCB with that stuff, and see if it's any better. I don't think I have enough to finish the PCB AND the various enclosure bits (pots, switches, jacks).

[LucifersTrip]

I used to go through tips in around 5 pedal builds with a 40W iron. I switched to a 30W and that exact same tip is on there a year later and counting...

I do have another iron for the stuff that needs more heat.

[PRR]

Radio Shack flux solder was always good to me. Note that I stocked-up decades ago and have not bought any recently. I'm pretty sure it is/was the Big Name stuff bought private-label.

I'd be dubious about problems that start with a new roll of solder. PartsExpress are good people, but maybe they got a bad lot.

[jwyse]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is the Big Name solder manufacturer?


Slightly unrelated:

I also managed to burn up a PCB (vero) with the new Hakko iron this afternoon. It didn't make any sense that the PCB blackened after reasonably-short contact with the soldering iron, so I looked up the calibration instructions for the soldering station.  The recalibration steps were all too familiar: turns out that I had inadvertently recalibrated my iron (so it was much hotter than the setting) when I was trying to simply set the temperature.   Obviously, this contributed to the problems on the new iron.

I think I've got the hang of it now, but I'm not really excited about the user interface on the FX888D.  Presets be damned; I wish the FX888 (no "D") with the simple temp knob was still available.  The two-button user interface isn't intuitive until after you've got a couple of presets defined, and even after RTFM (twice) before turning it on, I still managed to screw something up.

Luckily, I remembered that my multimeter came with a temperature probe.  Checked the manual to find that it'll read up to 1000C.    So I've got the new Hakko recalibrated correctly, and also verified that my Xytronic is only a few degrees lower than the temp setting.

[bloxstompboxes]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is the Big Name solder manufacturer?

At my job at Harman, as in JBL, Harman Kardon, Mark Levinson, and the like, they use Aim solder if I remember correctly. I use the stuff every day. If it's good enough for them then it should be good enough for us. Kester is another good brand, or so I have heard.

[italianguy63]

I've always used Kester... but, my last big roll was R/S and it was excellent too.

[PRR]

In the 50s and 60s there were 3 or 4 companies (like Kester) who mostly sold solder and were very reliable. The RS stuff always seemed the same without the name.

Turn off the lights. A pretty-hot iron glows just-red. A 1,000 deg iron will be pretty darn bright. I agree about 2-button interfaces, but this tip might help keep you from frying. If no-glow, go hotter. If glow, turn back to no-glow then up to barely-glow. That won't be right for all work, but at least it isn't over the fence.