How to recognize original IC's

[Crontox102098]

Just that, wanna know. Can gimme information? 

[mth5044]

What does that even mean? You mean fake ones? Home-made ones?

[Crontox102098]

What does that even mean? You mean fake ones? Home-made ones?

Fake ones vs original ones...

Something like recognize a RC4558 from Texas Instruments and recognize the same chip, with the same label, but from China.

[R.G.]

Face ones vs original ones...
Something like recognize a RC4558 from Texas Instruments and recognize the same chip, with the same label, but from China.

Sigh.

TI and other semiconductor makers now make their stuff in China - and Indonesia, and Taiwan, and many other places.

"From China" does not necessarily imply "bad" or "counterfeit". There are fakers and counterfeiters everywhere. I would be very surprised if there were not distributors in the USA, Europe, and other countries making their own counterfeits and blaming "China" if they get caught.

There are many ways to recognize fakes, but they all involve knowing in great detail what the many varieties of real ones look like, and detecting differences. The best thing to do is not to buy solely on price, but to buy from dealers with wide reputations. Spending more on known good parts is probably cheaper in the long run.

So are you setting up your pedal manufacturing business?

[Crontox102098]

Face ones vs original ones...
Something like recognize a RC4558 from Texas Instruments and recognize the same chip, with the same label, but from China.

Sigh.

TI and other semiconductor makers now make their stuff in China - and Indonesia, and Taiwan, and many other places.

"From China" does not necessarily imply "bad" or "counterfeit". There are fakers and counterfeiters everywhere. I would be very surprised if there were not distributors in the USA, Europe, and other countries making their own counterfeits and blaming "China" if they get caught.

There are many ways to recognize fakes, but they all involve knowing in great detail what the many varieties of real ones look like, and detecting differences. The best thing to do is not to buy solely on price, but to buy from dealers with wide reputations. Spending more on known good parts is probably cheaper in the long run.

So are you setting up your pedal manufacturing business?

Thanks for that information
Nope, i just make pedals for me and my band. I've sold some, and am interested in the idea of my own business, but not now.
Just another thing... for example... there are differences (in sound) between some LM386 original and some LM386 fake?

Cheers!

[R.G.]

Just another thing... for example... there are differences (in sound) between some LM386 original and some LM386 fake?

Good question.

Here's a better question: what is a **real** LM386 or [insert any chip or transistor number here]?

Semiconductor making is much like baking a cake. You take butter, cream, eggs, purified silicon crystals, arsenic and phosphine and proceed to mix, beat, whip, chip, yada, yada, then bake. What comes out is a cake, right? At least if it's not me baking it.

If I want to make a Chocolate Velvet Cake, I get out the Chocolate Velvet Cake recipe, then try to measure the ingredients exactly per the recipe and bake it just like the recipe says. Only my eggs are a little small, the flour is higher in gluten, and the oven's a tiny bit cooler than the recipe and the temperature dial on the oven say it is.

I get a cake out, but is it a **real** Chocolate Velvet Cake, is it an imitation, as I'm not the one who wrote the recipe? Or is it a counterfeit Chocolate Velvet Cake?

The only possible answer is that if it conforms to the desired specifications for Chocolate Velvet Cake, it's real, and if it's too dry, or crumbly, or burned, it's defective. There is no such thing as a Chocolate Velvet Cake, except to the extent that this try matches the specification for the cake.

With semiconductors, the recipes and baking processes are so demanding that most semiconductor makers test all of the resulting "cakes" and throw the ones that don't match the description/datasheet of the chip into the garbage can. The defective ones were made exactly the same way, but they are not "real" are they?

If you think about it, the only real LM386 or whatever is **anything that meets the numbers on the datasheet, no matter who made it**.

Today, TI makes the LM386. Well, they do because they bought all of National Semiconductor, and National designed the original and wrote the datasheet. If it's made by TI to National Semiconductor specifications, is it real?  New Japan Radio Corporation makes the JRC386, which meets all the specs for a National and a later TI LM386, as has some additional capabilities, too. Is the JRC386 a real LM386? Of course it is - it meets all the specifications.

Is some no-name Indonesian-made "LM386" a real LM386? The answer is "maybe". It's not where or when it was made, it's whether it meets the specifications on the datasheet.

And to further this revery, a better question than whether a real, honest, made-by-National-Semiconductor LM386 sounds exactly like every other National Semi LM386. Or whether modern TI/National LM386s sound like the old ones, or like each other. Only then can you start to worry whether the old LM386, the new LM386, the JRC386, and the no-name, made in a snake-pit "LM386" sound alike.

I'm belaboring the issue to point out to you that you've believed all the advertising, that this or that part is somehow different and special, magically better because it's older, made out of more expensive materials, or only made on Wednesday by a guy with a beard. Parts either meet the datasheet specs or they don't. It is useless (in my opinion) to waste time and money on parts that may not meet spec, and a complete waste of money to buy things that are advertised as better than all the rest for some mysterious reason.

But that's just me.   

[Crontox102098]

But that's just me.   

You're the GOD of all those things i've seen about electronics. Thanks for all those explaining. I did understand EVERYTHING  .

Cheers!

[StephenGiles]

Who cares just so long as the bugget works!!

[bool]

Things change all the time.

There is no other "way" (IMHO) than asking on trusted forums on case-per-case basis.

Best (IMHO) is to include all relevant data - and photos if possible.


People were spotting (and reporting) counterfeits on diy hi-fi forums for ages.

[anotherjim]

Old original stock can be recognized immediately - you can read the printing on top of the IC from across the room
When and why did they change to using invisible ink?

[Tony Forestiere]

The only possible answer is that if it conforms to the desired specifications for Chocolate Velvet Cake, it's real, and if it's too dry, or crumbly, or burned, it's defective. There is no such thing as a Chocolate Velvet Cake, except to the extent that this try matches the specification for the cake.

Absolutely brilliant analogy. (Where did the danged light-bulb emoticon go?)

[J0K3RX]

The only possible answer is that if it conforms to the desired specifications for Chocolate Velvet Cake, it's real, and if it's too dry, or crumbly, or burned, it's defective. There is no such thing as a Chocolate Velvet Cake, except to the extent that this try matches the specification for the cake.

Um...    Perhaps choose something less likely...?  If it's got chocolate, they WILL make it!
http://www.myrecipes.com/recipe/chocolate-velvet-cake-batter-10000000554760/

[Blitz Krieg]

that's modified brownie mix