Banana Jack Amps: No-Solder, All-Tube Guitar Amp Kits

[tombaker]

To be honest most people that buy PC's and laptops should have to take an intelligence test first.

Amen

[greaser_au]

Is this thing really a kit?  Or is it a range of separate interconnectable finished modules requiring individual CE/UL approval?  Even that could change the legal definition...

If I was considering something like this,  the HV would be bussed  through a series of *safe* connectors on  the sides of all modules and the signal path would  be capacitor-isolated top/end mounted banana-pluggable with pulldown resistors. The fully enclosed power supply and output stage module would be optional, either single ended,  or push-pull (this one requiring the also optional concertina, paraphase or long-tailed-pair phase inverter module).  The valves would all be caged. All modules would be transparent and laid out to be obvious what was going on from a circuit perspective (or at least a silk screen overlay).  But I'm not considering something like this.

david

[CodeMonk]

Even a child, or my mum, would figure out to plug an IEC lead into an IEC socket and a banana lead into a banana socket. That's all it takes to get a shock from your setup,

Yes, but I child, and I suppose your mum, wouldn't have purchased a Banana Jack Amp kit in the first place. And you have to turn it on, too. I suspect (if it hasn't occurred to the person earlier) it is probably at that moment they will realize they should take care -- they're turning on a device that has loose wires plugged (albeit indirectly) into the wall. I really don't think any of our prospective customers would be fool enough to do as you say.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." - Albert Einstien

I am saying this as a former Software Engineer/Developer: "NEVER underestimate the stupidity of your users".

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Well... my initial offer, which you never responded to, is still on the table.

I'm willing to build up and review one of your Banana kits and provide non-biased feedback and pictures of the process.

PM me if interested. 

[Gerry Rzeppa]

Is this thing really a kit?  Or is it a range of separate interconnectable finished modules requiring individual CE/UL approval?  Even that could change the legal definition...

It's a kit. Components. Like really big integrated circuits.

If I was considering something like this,  the HV would be bussed  through a series of *safe* connectors on  the sides of all modules and the signal path would  be capacitor-isolated top/end mounted banana-pluggable with pulldown resistors. The fully enclosed power supply and output stage module would be optional, either single ended,  or push-pull (this one requiring the also optional concertina, paraphase or long-tailed-pair phase inverter module).  The valves would all be caged. All modules would be transparent and laid out to be obvious what was going on from a circuit perspective (or at least a silk screen overlay).  

Different objectives, different results. I was trying to keep each module to a single function (consistent with the following objectives), each module the same basic size, shape and style, with an entire amp (including power supply) compact enough to fit, left-to-right (no stacking), on a card table, with the all the base components easily and equally accessible, with no tools required for assembly or disassembly, and with enough modules in the basic kit so that it actually works, for less than $300. But by all means, go for it! Who knows what people are looking for? And the more opportunities for learning and creating out there, the better!

But I'm not considering something like this.

Bummer.

david

[Gerry Rzeppa]

Well... my initial offer, which you never responded to, is still on the table.

I'm willing to build up and review one of your Banana kits and provide non-biased feedback and pictures of the process.

PM me if interested. 

Hard to take someone seriously when their real name is unknown and they propose something on a forum instead of writing directly. Moot point, in any case. I don't have any kits "ready for review" at this juncture, since the several prototypes are all in various stages of construction/deconstruction/reconstruction. Thanks anyway.

[Jack White]

This thread has gone all Lancelot Link and I like it!!

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Hard to take someone seriously when their real name is unknown and they propose something on a forum instead of writing directly. Moot point, in any case. I don't have any kits "ready for review" at this juncture, since the several prototypes are all in various stages of construction/deconstruction/reconstruction. Thanks anyway.

Sorry. I just figured you would PM me (as noted in the last post) and we could discuss the pertinent details there. And... since I am not the one with something to prove NOR something to try to sell and/or convince that it is SAFE... I didn't feel the need to openly discuss it on the forum publicly.

Just wanted to offer my services to try to quell the skeptics. No worries..... defend on! 

[J M Fahey]

from Garry Rzeppa  
No need to spend a lot of money to be told what I already know.

a) either you don't know
b) or you don't care
c) all of the above

As I've said before, I trust my own judgement on this matter.

Said the guy playing with matches and gasoline , until ... oooooops !!!!

And since the risk is all mine, well, that's the end of it.

WRONG.
The real risk is for the stupid guy who buys one of your "kits".

Yours is at worst, financial, which since you are bankrupt can't hurt you.
Does the drowning man worry about rain?

Or going to jail for life, which in practice might mean a couple years, no big deal.

[vigilante397]

I know this thread has been inactive for a couple days now, but I just wanted to let everyone know that it has given me the inspiration for the artwork for a pedal I just finished a few days ago The first coat of paint is baking now, so it will probably be a day or so before I get it completely finished, but I will post pictures And don't worry Gerry, if I end up selling it and making a profit I promise I'll donate to your kickstarter.

[Gerry Rzeppa]

I just wanted to let everyone know that this thread has given me the inspiration for the artwork for a pedal I just finished a few days ago...

When something I've had a hand in helps to inspire others to be creative, in any way, I consider it a success. Looking forward to seeing your pedal...

[Thecomedian]

I held out as long as I could.   With the proper written cautions, I see nothing wrong with this. I started off on the safety side of this debate, then I realized I could browse the internet or catalog and easily get myself into much more trouble quite easily. I'm all for safety but at some point you gotta let stupid fix itself or we won't be able to do so much as build a 9V pedal without someone worrying a toddler will try to eat the knobs then there will be the no removable knobs law governed under some class X government rule requiring 2000.00 in testing to verify the knobs don't come off at an inopportune time.  I also think we are potentially conflating DIY with Production.

Soon, I can no longer buy and play with Bucky Balls

http://gizmodo.com/5929064/buckyballs-have-been-banned-by-the-feds

...because some irresponsible parent let their kids eat them, give me a break. Make sure the proper warnings exist and be done with it. The risks are the risks, if the seller is willing to make them known, and take them, it shouldn't be a problem.

Well, I generally agree with the spirit of your post and the frustration that parents often don't do a good enough job of warning their children and explaining potential hazards.  Unfortunately, the laws are not usually structured around the responsible people but those who are not careful.  And lawsuits are the first thing that happens when something goes wrong, even if there is some culpability on the part of the user.  As a manufacturer, I would do whatever I reasonably could to shield myself from that possibility.

The President of the buckyballs company also agreed with you, but that didn't prevent the company from getting sued and Buckyballs pulled from the market (which was probably a bit much).  If you are a small company, that sort of thing could absolutely destroy you, which is why it's probably worth spending a few bucks to discuss the design with somebody who is well versed in safety requirements AND potential legal exposure.  An expert would let you know what warnings and what safety features could protect the manufacturer from being sued.  At the very least they could show due diligence that a proper risk analysis was done, which can help avoid lawsuits that claim negligence.

That is all anybody has said here.  It seems like somebody who isn't careful could use this product in a manner that could harm them; it's probably worth talking to a consultant who could help make sure the manufacturer isn't legally exposed.  It's a building block product, and there are high voltages outside of the blocks.  I think that is the crux of the issue.  If the blocks need to be in another enclosure to be safe, then the purpose of having the blocks in the first place is totally defeated.

I am not quite as down on the overall product as others are, although I think it probably needs refinement before it's ready to go.  I think most folks have dropped out of the thread at this point because it's been pretty much the same conversation for the last few pages and it's getting stagnant.  I don't expect that to change after my post either, but I felt compelled to post to clarify why the suggestions were made in the first place.

Mother of god...

When I was 9 I already knew not to stick foreign crap in my mouth, and that metallic objects were not candy. Apparently 12 and 14 year olds were swallowing these highly magnetic marbles....

[Ice-9]

It looks like a moot discussion now as the kickstarter with 37 hours to go has only raised about 4% of the total needed. Nice idea for a learning tool even though flawed by the safety issue, I hope your copper amp does better Gerry which I thought a better product anyway.

[vigilante397]

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for! I am proud to present, as inspired by this thread .... THE DANCING BANANA TREMOLO!!!!!!



A very fitting 500th post I must say

[Giglawyer]

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for! I am proud to present, as inspired by this thread .... THE DANCING BANANA TREMOLO!!!!!!



A very fitting 500th post I must say

Epic!

[Gerry Rzeppa]

And now, the moment you've all been waiting for! I am proud to present, as inspired by this thread .... THE DANCING BANANA TREMOLO!!!!!!

Nicely done. How do you do that? Is is silk-screened?

[DougH]

<yawn...>

http://www.positivegrid.com/bias/

[bool]

Neat! Now you just have to pair it with a super-fuzzy big muff.

[vigilante397]

Epic!

Thanks!

Nicely done. How do you do that? Is is silk-screened?

I'd like to get into silkscreening, but alas I have no money This is a waterslide decal, which is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to get a really good-looking finished pedal

[Gerry Rzeppa]

I'd like to get into silkscreening, but alas I have no money

You could try Kickstarter

This is a waterslide decal, which is one of the easiest and cheapest ways to get a really good-looking finished pedal

Well, it looks great.

Incidently, we're into easy and cheap ways to get a really good artwork, too. In fact, since our Banana Jack Amps didn't get funded, we've decided to give the art business a shot:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1335354839/art-for-the-rest-of-us

Unfortunately, it's not an entirely safe enterprise either -- no high voltage, but we've still got hot irons to worry about!