Analog electronics in the 2000's. Why we still use them, will they disappear?

[Ice-9]

http://shadowmusic.bdme.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11466

This is an interesting discussion, with a video of an ex Shadow's band playing recently - may be relevant here.

Nice link there Stephen - on a side note to this the on The Shadowmania gig in the link one of my pedals was included on the pedalboard which is a digital based pedal

I don't see analogue electronics fading away in my lifetime, interfacing between humans and electronics will generally need some sort of analogue interaction.

[J0K3RX]

For the most part nearly the entire music industry has gone completely digital, pretty damn sure.. As for guitar, bass, drums etc it's still in transition but as soon as the next couple generations of players are born (literally) there will continue to be a place for "analog" effects, amps, rigs... The musicians of tomorrow are not here today to weigh in on this but I would be willing to bet a Maestro Echoplex (if I owned one) that they will be using nearly all digital. Oh sure, there will still be analog stuff floating around for decades to come and a small market for it but, the vast majority will not be using it for recording, live or whatever. You may like the "good old imperfections" of non-digital but the your children and your children's children may not share your nostalgic memories of the "good old days" when a "real musician" had to lug around a van full of equipment. When I say generations keep in mind that I am saying when these kids get old enough to post a video on youtube or whatever will be the "next thing" in the near future.. Also, keep in mind that I am not young either but I have already seen enough evidence to support my theory. I have 4 kids ranging from 7 to 22 years of age and I can see "the writing on the tablet" so to speak. It's not even a question "if" digital will ever be able to sound as good as analog anymore because we have already arrived! It has already surpassed analog in so many ways if not every way and beyond but, there is still a generation or two that are still not convinced and holding on tightly. As time rolls along and digital becomes easier and easier to utilize and becomes the primary spoken language I believe you will see analog put to bed where music is concerned. You don't have to look too far into the future to see that it's already beginning to happen, just listen to some popular music and it should be very evident! I love imperfections and mistakes but there is no room for that anymore and if there is for some reason a need for imperfection then digital can imitate it.

I have to say that there are some really really good alternatives right now and if I were a kid again, earning a very low income, starting to play and possibly playing live it would be a "No Brainer" for so many reasons! It's all relatively new compared to tube amps and fx pedals but technology grows in quantum leaps... 

Prime example:And by the way, I have played this and it sounds and feels unbelievable!!! I will buy it eventually.
Positive Grid JamUp Pro XT with the custom amps, BIAS Guitar Amp Designer and Modeler and BT-2 & BT-4 Bluetooth MIDI controller
http://www.positivegrid.com/
And if you think there is a lack of support from the community then you're just not as "up to date" as you think you are!
http://www.positivegrid.com/artists

Other prime examples would be AXE-FX, Kemper and others are following suit and there will be cheaper and more powerful alternatives, soon.

The Pro's
1. Sounds as good if not better than the real thing.
2. Cost is almost nothing compared to the alternatives. I can have "ALL OF THEM" for the price of a tube screamer.
3. Size is almost nothing compared to the alternatives. I can put it all on my phone or even an ipod or whatever..
4. I can get it now, RIGHT NOW and be playing it RIGHT NOW without leaving my home! A big deal in the world of instant gratification!

The Con's?
?..... crickets....?

[alanp]

1. DIY isn't quite as fun. I don't want to solder together a smd dsp chip, and ONLY that, and then spend time coding (or, more likely, uploading a more competent person's code.)

2. If you're going to that, you might as well just buy DSPFX2781, or whatever the cool kids of 2040 are using.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

In response to the OP....

Quite simply, analog is still preferred because Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, SRV, Jimmy Hendrix, etc. didn't use Digital. They used analog. And people want to "sound" like them so they get what they had available to them at the time.

I really dont see it being anything more than that! Its really the same reason why people HAVE TO have a Les Paul Traditional or an American Strat or their Fuzz pedal HAS TO have germ transistors in it. Because that was the way it was and what was used by their guitar gods. 

[jubal81]

Purely a daydream:
What about a mixed-signal chip that has, say some onboard opamps, transistors, resistors, caps, diodes, etc. and multiplex switching controlled with the onboard micro controller .... You could program analog circuits and change them on the fly.

[anchovie]

warmth

I've been hearing this word in relation to music/equipment for 25 years now and I still don't know what it actually means. But given the amount of sludge metal I listen to, it's probably not relevant. 

[Frank_NH]

I suppose that guitarists around the world will be dumping their outdated analog tube amps in 3...2...1 

(And I'll be there to snatch up one of those surplus '59 Bassman heads that nobody wants any more for a song! )

[StephenGiles]

All I can say is thank Clapton for the TI "sample program" !!!

[tubegeek]

Some analog equipment is just so goddam GORGEOUS.

Not a guitar, but a 1905 electric keyboard designed by Helmholz. Pre-sale estiimate $20,000-30,000:

[petemoore]

 Excellent thread content !
The predicted tapering of analog circuit use was noticed, especially after digital learned to introduce itself really well.




 

[FiveseveN]

DIY isn't quite as fun. I don't want to solder together a smd dsp chip, and ONLY that, and then spend time coding (or, more likely, uploading a more competent person's code.)

Thought I'd chime in on this particular issue. I personally enjoy designing circuits in CAD, simulating and building them just as much as programming, woodworking, machining and so on. Everyone has their preference, and that's precisely the point: some people will prefer coding over soldering, so the argument can be made either way.
It's been pointed out that analog electronics (or specifically effects building) are cheaper to get into, but I don't think that's the case (any longer). Sure, the basic components are pennies, but soldering irons, DMMs, pots and knobs, enclosures etc. are not. On the other hand, one can make a VST effect with free tools, on a computer they already own, in a language they probably already know. Hardware (standalone) DSP works much along the same lines, with all the demo boards and development tools, but is subject to the same costs for enclosures and auxiliary hardware.
The learning curve is different for people who see effect DIY as a hobby (perhaps complementary to their guitar playing), an alternative source of income or a gateway to the mainstream industry. Having previous experience in related fields is of course also a factor.

But the original question was about technology as a whole, not only our quirky DIY niche.

[petemoore]

 I can see the analog circuits role becoming a strictly academic, historical field of study done with computer simulations and processors, becoming what is left over from the golden age of analog.
To study a subject such as 'analog' or 'sound wave behavior', a learning program would be loaded into a multi media station by a student.
The question is really entertaining me by testing my ability to envision the odds of various combinations of future scenarios.
Will digital continue to increase the financial pressure squeezing analog parts into SMD, reducing the availability of 'big old' parts for casual use/experimenting ?
Will all circuit design become 'formal' as in strictly the desired curriculum required for industrious production of CAD / SMD entries only ?
What potentials will stepper motors reveal in their bid to replace coil driver transducer motors ?
Will analog devices be relegated to tackling brute tasks like being part of the power supply or amplifier ?

[clipman3]

Coincidentally, I'm doing a paper on this sort of thing for one of my classes  
One of the most interesting ideas I have found is the post-digital movement, and how it is slowly seeping into mainstream culture.
Not all of it is relevant, but it's still an interesting read - http://www.aprja.net/?p=1318
Another interesting read, explains how analog is used to achieve Haptic Feedback, and how digital makes it more difficult to achieve the same effect - http://www.aprja.net/?p=1003
I really think analog will always live on in audio, at least. As mentioned above, Vinyl is a perfect example: It might go in and out of style, but nothing can really replace it. There's something to be said for the non-linear behaviour of many analog devices, especially discreet ones. I dunno. Kinda talking out of my ass here, but it's kind of like the idea of post-digital. I don't see any reason for the two not to coexist - eg. Digital LFO with an analog signal path - but it really comes down to cost vs quality and ease of use I think. People seem have some weird draw to analog tech, at least in audio, but audio is a small niche in the already niche topic of electronics.

Oh, and while we're on the topic of warmth, here's another interesting article lol - http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb10/articles/analoguewarmth.htm

I have to say that there are some really really good alternatives right now and if I were a kid again, earning a very low income, starting to play and possibly playing live it would be a "No Brainer" for so many reasons! It's all relatively new compared to tube amps and fx pedals but technology grows in quantum leaps... 

I'm kind of in that boat right now, and I have to say that it honestly doesn't entice me - or anyone I know - as much as you'd expect. My generation is as much shallow as it is impatient and "cutting edge," and everyone in my local "scene" (if you'd really wanna call it that) wants t00bz as much for looks as they want it for T0Nz.

[FiveseveN]

the post-digital movement

Postmodern hipsters don't have a say in the evolution of technology, sorry. Leave it to the rich, healthy and educated to bitch about how distraught they are with contemporary conveniences.

Vinyl is a perfect example: It might go in and out of style, but nothing can really replace it.

How do you mean "replace it"? It's already been replaced by tape, which in turn was replaced by the CD and so on. Or are you referring to a modern tech that behaves precisely like vinyl, including all its shortcomings and particularities when it comes to sound reproduction? Well we already have things like these, but this particular issue is not exactly a mainstream priority.

People seem have some weird draw to analog tech

Nostalgia and technophobia are fairly well understood.

[samhay]

There's something to be said for the non-linear behaviour of many analog devices...

I think that's probably the single greatest reason why analog(ue) will hang along for a while yet in guitar/music circles.
That and the fact that we will probably use analog (power) amps for quite some time, so the signal at either end of the signal chain will need some analog circuitry.

[greaser_au]

Vinyl is a perfect example: It might go in and out of style, but nothing can really replace it.

How do you mean "replace it"? It's already been replaced by tape, which in turn was replaced by the CD and so on. Or are you referring to a modern tech that behaves precisely like vinyl, including all its shortcomings and particularities when it comes to sound reproduction? Well we already have things like these, but this particular issue is not exactly a mainstream priority.

yes, but that digital snap crackle and pop has none of the warmth and enjoyment of the real mechanically generated and analoguely amplified real thing...   

Mainstream?  Current music genres, combined with nightclub sound systems or auto subwoofers show that modern music listeners have no ****ing idea. We come up with all of this hifi gear designed with to be good for a THD of  0.001% and most users listen to it well into clipping... give me a williamson amp designed around EL34s any day  - at least I will enjoy the warm woody/dusty smell (which is what I loved the most about my Laney Klipp!).

david

[DougH]

Some analog equipment is just so goddam GORGEOUS.

Not a guitar, but a 1905 electric keyboard designed by Helmholz. Pre-sale estiimate $20,000-30,000:

Maybe. But who wants to use it?

[DougH]

stompboxes aside...how many here prefer the sound of vinyl lps over cd's & mp3's? warmth immediately comes to mind especially when played on a quality turntable + a vintage tube stereo system. personally, I don't have a problem with an occasional record scratch. digital fxs can sound kind of 'fake' in small venues...in a large arena, few listeners can differentiate.

Different. Not necessarily better.

There's room for both in my world.

[Mark Hammer]

In the early 80's, one of the major voices in audio at the time, either Julian Hirsch or Len Feldman, had a piece in either Audio or Stereo Review, discussing the emerging kerfuffle about digital recordings (and keep in mind this was digital recording on vinyl) and their "harshness".

What the writer noted was that audio engineering techniques had evolved in anticipation of the weaknesses and quirks of traditional analog recording.  In particular, mics, EQ-ing, and mic-placement methods were deliberately used to help tracks/instruments "cut through" when all was collapsed onto 2" tape, running at 15 IPS, with all of tape's inherent dynamic headroom limitations, saturation, etc.  When those limitations were removed (or drastically reduced), he noted, the engineering techniques overcompensated, and the result WAS harsh, brittle, or whatever other adjective you want to use.  However, he noted, eventually recording engineers would learn to adapt their methods to the new technology so as to yield a more pleasing recorded sound that took advantage of what digital recording afforded.  So, basically, if you use the wrong screwdriver for a new type of screw, you risk stripping the head.  And once you use the right screwdriver/method, everything proceeds swimmingly.

We've seen lengthy debates about digital vs analog delay, and people go on ad nauseum about the "warmth" of analog.  But, much like recording, the "warmth" we associated with analog was really a result of what was needed to cope with the flaws and weaknesses of bucket-brigade technology.  As it turned out, rolling off all that top end did a pretty good job of mimicking how echoes get shaped in the real world.  BUT THAT WAS NOT THE ORIGINAL PURPOSE.  So when digital delays became feasible, and manufacturers realized they didn't have to cope with the same headroom and noise-control limits, a lot of that filtering was simply eliminated.  And musicians found digital delays too harsh and brittle in many applications.  It wasn't the mode of technology, but rather the failure to recognize how much the most pleasing aural result was due to things we had traditionally done to address THAT particular technology.  Once the gaps/differences were recognized (and described, so they could be turned into algorithms), the differences in pleasingness of the end-result pretty much vanished.

[DougH]

Part of the problem is most people don't really understand the recording process or the technology involved with it. So they take one sliver in a big pie and latch on to it: "oh, it's analog", "oh, it's digital", "it's germanium", "it's silicon", "it's solid state", "it's tube", and suddenly, in their minds that one little piece among a vast number of pieces accounts for the whole reason they either like or hate a particular sound. While a lot of pedal and amp circuits are fairly primitive, there are still a lot of "moving parts" involved in what affects the final sound you hear. And the recording/mixing/mastering process is much *much* more complex than that.

So you mix this with a little good old-fashioned sentimentality and nostalgia, shake, stir, and myopia results. Pretty soon there are all kinds of "internet truisms" flying around that people believe without questioning. Usually, what is really going is much more complex.