Considering a different approcah to protruding LEDs

[karbomusic]

Definitely cheap enough to warrant a try, and some experimenting. I spoke earlier about a 0.020" thick coating would be ideal, and had I not seen what you were doing, I'd have thought something like this was only good for much thicker applications. And I guess you just mask-off holes and such? Do you have some control over its consistency? I'd think both of our requirements for a thinner coating, it might help if there were product variations that were a little lower viscosity to work with?

Leave the holes and let it drain through or drill afterwards. I have heard that drilling afterwards can be a little too thick for 9mm pot and their thread depth but not if you drill first. Or... you can pour it on and brush down the thickness first, reducing it so that any pot will fit. IOW, you do have control over how thick it is.

It can be a little tricky on the sides, I brush those down every 15 minutes or so for the first hour or two and better to drill sides last. If there are any runs after that, I'll lightly sand the sides and hit with clear coat when finished. It takes a couple tries to get a feel for it. Another hint, is temperature greatly helps with curing time so for the first hour or two I keep it room temperature then once I'm happy with the sides, I throw a small space heater in front and it sets up much quicker. At 70F it might take 5-7 hours before you can touch it, with judicial use of a heater, its more like 2 or 3, with more heat even faster but carries the risk of the runs on the side setting before leveling. Also, breathe on it and any air bubbles magically disappear.  

[tubegeek]

If I had a dime for every good product I learned about on these forums, I think I'd have a nice bankroll saved up!

In my experience that's not how it works. I think you're neglecting the cost side of the process.

But you do end up with a nice supply of good products!

[karbomusic]

.... on my next build I'm going to pour the EnviroTex with the LED in place which will make it completely flush on top.

Just following up on the above. I did it and I really like the result but it won't be for everyone. I mounted the LEDs just flush or slightly higher than the surface, then coated with EnviroTex. The clear coat completely defeated the lens on the LED making it appear as if the anode/cathode are suspended in the clear coat. It also makes them look like little bright dots. The surface is smooth and flat above the LEDs:










I definitely like the aesthetic aspect and it glows a little since the entire top of the pedal is now a lens of sorts but not too much.

[davent]

So the same effect as filing/sanding an LED flat, left with just a point souce of light.

An aside here, are you coating the sides of your enclosures with Envirotex as well, getting great results!

[PeterPan]

For what its worth, I had a discussion with a rep at ETI, and got at least some discouraging info about this Envirotex. For one thing, if I DO use it for my application, I don't think I want it to be too thick. In fact ideally, it will be just enough to make the 30 mil recesses flush. Well my label is already about 5 mils, so that's a pretty thin coat, and the rep told me they don't recommend a coating less than 1/16" (which equates to about 62 mils). Apparently there could be a problem with it tending to wrinkle if its too thin. I definitely don't want to get into coating ALL sides.

I also had a question about yellowing, as I'd read that it will yellow in a matter of weeks if exposed to direct sunlight. I don't expect it to be outside a lot, but I ordered one of the variations that had some extra UV protection just to be on the safe side.

I also have a concern about another part of this product line which is meant to be a foot switch controller...



Now the clear coating on that piece was done by simply having my labels laminated. I'm considering dding LEDs next to each foot switch on this unit, and here again I'm considering recessing the LEDs, and I'm not sure I like what the Envirotex did to your LEDs! I'm also concerned that despite the very heavy plastic, any foot-switch make of any plastic is going to flex some, and I'd be surprised if this didn't cause some cracking as the epoxy got harder and harder over time. So anyway, I may stick with lamination.

Lots of materials in the mail to my shop, and lots of experiments to do now. Fun fun fun. Wish me luck!

I'll give it a try. Fortunately Polycase lets you buy extra covers at pretty reasonable prices, in case I mess up some.

[davent]

These, available for 3 & 5mm LED's can be recessed, don't have to sit proud of the enclosure and ensure good viewing of the light from a wide view angle.

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/CLB300RTP/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujI0%2fjPMy2IfbkVc8Yejv5BgzKI%2feQom%252b0%3d

[PeterPan]

These, available for 3 & 5mm LED's can be recessed, don't have to sit proud of the enclosure and ensure good viewing of the light from a wide view angle.

http://ca.mouser.com/ProductDetail/VCC/CLB300RTP/?qs=%2fha2pyFadujI0%2fjPMy2IfbkVc8Yejv5BgzKI%2feQom%252b0%3d

Kewl! Good find!

[karbomusic]

So the same effect as filing/sanding an LED flat, left with just a point souce of light.

Point of light probably so, do you get yours perfectly clear again after sanding? Just a curiosity since I liked the clarity of these and the fact the top finish was perfectly flat and glossy (until some other method distracts me)

[davent]

You can get them back to waterclear/unscratched with progressive wet sanding then a bit of rubbing compound to polish them back up.

[karbomusic]

For what its worth, I had a discussion with a rep at ETI, and got at least some discouraging info about this Envirotex. For one thing, if I DO use it for my application, I don't think I want it to be too thick. In fact ideally, it will be just enough to make the 30 mil recesses flush. Well my label is already about 5 mils, so that's a pretty thin coat, and the rep told me they don't recommend a coating less than 1/16" (which equates to about 62 mils). Apparently there could be a problem with it tending to wrinkle if its too thin. I definitely don't want to get into coating ALL sides.

That would likely rule it out as an option for you best I can tell. For my use thickness is required, not quite as much as it can do but more than you are needing. Mostly for durability etc.

I also had a question about yellowing, as I'd read that it will yellow in a matter of weeks if exposed to direct sunlight. I don't expect it to be outside a lot, but I ordered one of the variations that had some extra UV protection just to be on the safe side.

I exploit it from time to time by baking it but I haven't seen it do it long term via sunlight. I would image direct sunlight could affect it, the sun's a pretty strong fella.   Meaning if a concern, I'll toss a scrap I have outside somewhere and report back in a few weeks.

Lots of materials in the mail to my shop, and lots of experiments to do now. Fun fun fun. Wish me luck!

Good luck! I'm sure you'll find something that works.  

[karbomusic]

An aside here, are you coating the sides of your enclosures with Envirotex as well, getting great results!

^Missed this part. I am. Sides always make me nervous but they are getting better and better and more routine over time. I hope to eventually find a sure method, getting closer but not quite there yet.

I'm also really digging the space heater method which drastically reduces cure time.

[Jdansti]

I've used Envirotex several times with good success. One of the  biggest problems can be dust, lint, or animal hair settling on the uncured surface. You have to do it in a clean room and make sure your clothing doesn't have any pet hair or fuzz that could transfer to your work. You'll also want to use something on the inside of your enclosure to suspend it above the work surface. Otherwise, you'll glue the enclosure to what ever it's sitting on. I glue together a popsicle stick frame and set it on a paper plate. It helps to place a clean bowl over the enosure while it cures.

[PeterPan]

Of all those who have recommended Envirotex as a top coat, can you tell me your experiences machining it after the fact? For example, can you drill it? Use a hole punch on it?   

[davent]

Good tutorial on Envirotex here, i've no experience with it.

http://stompage.juansolo.co.uk/finishing.html

[Jdansti]

I'm not sure about using a punch on Envirotex, but it's very easy to drill and get nice results.  Just drill a pilot hole first so that you don't have any problems as the larger bit transfers from the epoxy to the metal.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the biggest concern with Envirotex is keeping dust and lint away from it while it cures. The tiniest specks of dust will create permanent little bumps on the surface. If you keep it clean during the curing process it looks beautiful and enhances the color of anything underneath it.

[davent]

For dust free drying of paint and clearcoat i made up a ziplock tent with stuff i had lying around, board, vinyl tubing and large ziplock storage bag. Knocks back down to nothing when not needed.

[PeterPan]

As I mentioned in a previous post, the biggest concern with Envirotex is keeping dust and lint away from it while it cures. The tiniest specks of dust will create permanent little bumps on the surface. If you keep it clean during the curing process it looks beautiful and enhances the color of anything underneath it.

And thanks to you too Davent, for that tent idea you made!

My drilling situation might be different, as my base is plastic. Its very thick plastic, but still its bound to flex more than metal, which could cause a separation, so I'll have to use high speed and go slow.

But dust and lint, as you speak of, has been an ongoing pain in the next for me. Just the simple act of spaying on some Krylon to offer some initial protection to my "raw" fresh printed labels, will be less than it could be in dust free environment. Ditto for a similar process to get a protective gloss finish, lamination. I've had some "OK" results bringing my labels elsewhere to be laminated for me, but I can't get it done at home without SOME crap (dust, a human hair, a CAT hair) marring the result. This is why one of the things I'm strongly considering is cutting that piece of clear 20 mil PETG plastic I mentioned, to cover the label. As all my enclosures have a 30 mil recess where the labels are, this might be my easy way out of my apparently un-winnable battle with dust!

I did get my Envirotex in the mail, so I'll at least give it a try. Time will tell whether it is a better solution than the PETG.

[karbomusic]

I just use a Tupperware plastic container and place it over it making it easy to remove and check etc. I don't think I've ever really had dust land on mine, not sure why but I'm not complaining! Also for anyone wondering, if some small foreign material were to land on it during the first hour or two, you can just remove it with tweezers or scoot it away with a toothpick and it will re-level itself.

[deadastronaut]

An aside here, are you coating the sides of your enclosures with Envirotex as well, getting great results!

indeed, i'd like to see more info/pics  on the sides part...

@karbo: looks great man...

[karbomusic]

An aside here, are you coating the sides of your enclosures with Envirotex as well, getting great results!

indeed, i'd like to see more info/pics  on the sides part...

@karbo: looks great man...

They don't turn out like that every time and that was my best go yet. Basically, I think a light sanding on the side before application helps because the ETex wants to "slide" off the surface if the sides are too smooth and is where much of the issue comes from IMHO. Otherwise, it's a timing/brushing/temperature thing. Also I try to brush enough so that if something does turn out bad, I can lightly sand the sides after application and make it satin or throw an acrylic clear or paint over that if needed. I also drilled the sides last in this go.

I have been experimenting with a space heater a lot lately. Seems you can really speed up the initial curing that way.