Noob here! Introduction, questions, & suggestion please!

[Prince]

Hell y'all!

My name is ChrisB or Prince and I'm out of ATL.  Since this is my first thread, please let me know if I am doing anything against protocol. 
I just started venturing into the world of DIY this year and have so far built three BYOC kits.  Ill link some photos below of my builds.  I have been doing tons of research the past two months, have about 50 links saved in a folder just for DIY pedal projects, but definitely know there is still tons to learn!

Now that I've got my feet under me a little bit, and feel like this will become a long-term/serious hobby for me, I was wondering if y'all could help me out a bit. 

1) How long should it take before I transition from BYOC/GGG Kits to doing layouts on vero/strip board?  Any resources on vero/strip board component placement/connection techniques?

2) Could y'all recommend a list of commonly used parts, such as pots, resistors, caps, etc., that I may buy in (reasonable) bulk in order to start keeping costs down?

3) My goal is to start doing 2 in 1 pedals, primarily for stacking types od/dist/fuzz/boosts, as that's what I love to do.  How hard is it to do 2 in 1's? And implementing an order toggle switch?  Any good resources on wiring/techniques/necessities?

Thanks for y'all past/present/and future guidance! Even though I have just signed up, I have already learned a lot from this forum and various other linked sites.  I am definitely eager to continue building, practicing and progressing my technicall skills/knowledge, and hopefully in the future Ill be able to contribute some original circuit designs/ideas to this community.


First two finished builds:

first build: BYOC Optical Compressor-"ComprEscher"



second build: BYOC British Blues OD-"The Yellow King"



Third build: BYOC Silver Pony- "Kubla Klon"




As you can see, there were definitely improvements in overall quality of soldering, wiring, and aesthetic design techniques from the first to most recent build.  But there is still so much room for improvement!  Thanks for stopping by and thanks for y'alls help!

[bloxstompboxes]

I would stay away from vero and stripboard if possible and try to start learning some layout software like DIYLC, DIPTrace, or Eagle and then make your own boards either by etching or having them fabbed. Some people like vero and stripboards but nothing beats a pcb. If you can learn to do a layout then you can make a more professional and easier to diagnose board. I find that you can make a PCB much smaller than you can a vero as well. Wouldn't hurt to know those but that's just my opinion.

[GibsonGM]

Welcome!  And same here...altho I don't just have a board made up...I use perf board, and wire them all up by myself!
I strongly suggest you do that or what Blox said, make a PCB.  Either way is great.  It's really hard to learn anything with Vero.

Nice looking pedals, by the way!!  Neater than what I do

PLEASE get active with a simulation (Spice) program, like LT Spice or TINA - both free.    Will help you TONS!!!

Learn to read and start to understand schematics!  That will take you VERY VERY FAR!!
Breadboard things.....you can get a breadboard on Ebay for like $5.

2 in 1's aren't hard if you get a large enough box...the 'mojo' is in wiring the switches, and there are diagrams for just that.  After you do 1 or 2 effects, you can actually just house them as separate PCBs IN the box, and do 2 in 1 switching on them!   Separate but able to switch between them, or bypass both if you want....

Some commonly used stuff you'll want:

A DIGITAL MULTIMETER (DMM) if you don't have one.  Crucial.

20 to 25W soldering iron (again, looks like you have one!)

A Full set of 1/4 Watt resistors....they're like 300 in a pack of various values. You'll USE them!  Get 2 if you have the money, ha ha.

9V battery connectors...wire alligator clips to the ends to power up a breadboard or circuit you've finished.

Alligator clips to make jumpers, etc.

1/4" jacks.  A bunch of mono ones, and a few stereo.  For your ins and outs....

A bunch of transistors such as 2N3904, 2N3906, 2N5088, 2N2222A   I'd get like 20 of each if you can afford it.

A bunch of opamps....TL071 and TL072, RC4558, LM741

Hookup wire!

A "set" of LEDs (bulk purchase on Ebay...mixed colors and sizes)

1N914 diodes (50+!)   1N34A diodes (germanium)

Assorted potentiometers (5k, 10k, 20k, 50k, 100k, 1Meg)  as you can afford to get them.  Or rip them out of dead equipment (for experimenting...best to use new ones on a build!)

A "cap kit" off ebay...poly types, from about .001uF to .68u are common to find..."50 values, 300 pieces" that kind of thing.  Small Bear might have one, I dunno *

The list is endless, but there is a start for you!  Breadboard - go for it!!  And look up electronics tutorials - the simple projects like using transistors to light LEDs teach you how they work, it's awesome for getting more into DIY, believe it or not.  Youtube tutorials on all this, too.  Get a transistor and 'Tube how to make a simple amplification stage! (booster)

*Small Bear Electric sells most of the stuff I listed, they're linked at the top of the page. I've done a lot of biz with them and they are GREAT. 
Plus also have tutorials on their site.  Even a good-priced DMM....

Hope this helps!  Let us know how it's going....

[Prince]

Thanks for the replies y'all!

The PCB design was something I wasn't sure was too advanced or not.  I wasn't sure if vero/strip board was the logical step before going to PCB design.  The latter seems to have the appeal of costing less?

I am currently reading through a bunch of the instructions for BYOC/GGG kits to see what the most common parts are in regards to pots, caps, diodes, etc.  The ebay suggestion for caps and resistors packs sounds like a good idea so I will definitely check that out. 

I'm also doing a test cart on Small bear for stuff like enclosures, LEDs, mono/stero jacks, footswitches, pots, etc., to get an estimate of what start up costs/buying in bulk will looks like.  Looks like Ill easily be between $500-1,000!  Yikes, well, it'll come back to me in fold once my buddies all (hopefully) buy some pedals off of me in the future! 

[Jdansti]

Welcome!  Vero/strip is something people either love or hate. I've done vero, perf, and PCB and haven't had major problems with any of them. The nice thing about vero is that there are a lot layouts floating around. Try it and see what you think.

[Quackzed]

  ....ComprEscher... thats great!   
wait.... is that an optical allusion?   

[knutolai]

Check out Kicad for PCB-design. Its free and contextual electronics has a great video-tutorial series which pretty much explains it all.

[GibsonGM]

You can get tons of parts for about $100...no need to go hog wild and spend $500+!   

Cap kit, about $20 
Resistor kit, same
transistors, $20 for a nice variety, maybe 10 each
Wire $10
Breadboards, $10
Diodes, $5 for a whole bunch (we're talking 5 cents each, at Mouser etc)
Various electrolytics, $10  (1u, 10u, 100u etc)

Hopefully you already have a DMM?  You can get a very useable one for $40, or an awesome one for anywhere from $60 to $500!

Don't be afraid to mix n match the methods....vero a couple, try perf for schematic to board work, and breadboard tons of things! There is no set way - the way you like will become apparent as you go.

[smallbearelec]

Any resources on vero/strip board component placement/connection techniques?

You've done very well so far! While I stock and sell Vero/Stripboard, I am partial to perf for my own work. I think that the transition from a perf layout to PCB is way more straightforward. You can see my approach in my articles on the Oh My Darling RM and the Ursa Minor here:

http://diy.smallbearelec.com/Projects/ProjandProd.html

One of our resident engineers did a book that teaches component layout on PCB for effects:

http://smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/pcb-layout-for-musical-effects/

It's deservedly popular, and I learned a lot from it.

The suggestion to begin learn the use of a CAD program is right-on. I like DIY Layout Creator for perf and EAGLE for PCB.

The only other suggestion I would add is to back up and learn to use a breadboard. Basic tool and techniques for rolling-your-own.

If you have questions as you shop, drop a line to the smallbearelec address. Welcome, and enjoy your new noise-toys!

[mcknib]

Something I wished I'd made sooner is a test pedal ala Beavis Audio very easy to make and allows you to test your populated boards without attaching jacks, DC jack, 3PDT etc and of course if it tests ok and then doesn't work when boxed you know you've made a mistake with the off board wiring to switches, jacks etc.

Also an Audio Probe - very very cheap to make and an invaluable de bugging tool once you get your head round how to trace the audio path from in to out and how to use the probe properly it takes your de bugging down to minutes sometimes.

I've PM'd you some links

I agree whole heartedly with all the advice given and getting all the basics sorted.

I do use breadboard, vero, pcb's and tag board for my projects vero more for small daughter boards like voltage inverters etc or simple circuits the only time I use it for more complex stuff is if I can't get a PCB or can't be bothered etching my own and as Mike said you don't learn too much from it and it is harder to de bug easier to get solder bridges etc but it may turn out to be your thing, so I'd say try them all!

If you want to get into circuit design then again take the advice and download the free software and read RG's technology of articles (also PM'd ) although a lot of it's over my head it gives you great insight into what part does what and if your building that particular circuit you could try socketing some of those parts and see what difference changing values will do, I'm a big fan of sockets and getting people to use them it saves you accidentally frying IC's, transistors etc and allows you to try different parts easily, but obviously don't run before you can crawl looking at your pedals though they are really nice and your soldering skills look good too, so for someone that's just started I'm impressed so maybe you're a natural.

Just looked at smallbearelect's stuff, very nice so I'm going for perf and molex connectors next build thanks Smallbear

You've came into a great hobby Prince - always learning, always building, always experimenting and not top of my list but essential anyway and sometimes enjoyable ALWAYS READING! and plenty of eureka moments too, add a few beers and what more could you want!

[aran.e666]

I actually have never built a kit, just vero and schematics are easy to get. In the uk we have an online supplier caled rapidonline.com there dirt cheap. Pack of 100 resistors for 70 odd pence, for metal film resistors (usually blue )
£1.04. I get all my jacks etc. But they dont sell 3pdt latching foot switches.  Good luck with your diy builds. Oh and for pots, lots of builds have different values but I just have loads of 100k for regular supply.

Aran

[smallbearelec]

Something I wished I'd made sooner is a test pedal ala Beavis Audio

Absolutely! However, try it this way:

http://diy.smallbearelec.com/HowTos/IdeaBoxAndBoard/IdeaBox.htm

I think Dano ran aground because partly of the expense of all the made-to-order pieces. The Idea Box hinges on two inexpensive brackets, one if you only mount the pots. Cobble them yourself if you are really short of $.

[mcknib]

Very nice proto typer the very thing! I'm glad I PM'd Prince saying you were one of the main suppliers for pedal builders in the US, I did mention one other, sorry.

Barry over at GPCB always recommends your goodself I quote:

An Excellent Resource for Parts and Enclosures including the Hard to Find Stuff!

[Prince]

Thanks for all the suggestions y'all!

Thanks to finding out about Radio Shack's demise from here, I went out yesterday and snagged all of these supplies for $30, to build my own "Beavis Board" for prototyping.  But that "Idea Box" looks really cool...maybe ill just have to design my own synthesis of the two!

[chumbox]

Welcome!

I built one BYOC design, moved to vero and have stuck there ever since.  I agree it's a cheap simple step and there are tons of designs you can build with it.  It may not create designs as small or tidy as PCB but it's never given me any major grief.  The other thing I like about vero is that after working with it for a while, it is very easy modify designs because you just add or remove strips as you require.  I know you can do this with PCB, but with vero I find the process simpler and quicker, especially for someone who is only really building for themselves.

Each to their own though, all the different methods are great for difference reasons.  You're not stuck to one method either.  I've learnt eagle recently and done a couple for PCBs for the thrill.

[smallbearelec]

Thanks to finding out about Radio Shack's demise from here, I went out yesterday and snagged all of these supplies for $30

You did well! One caution: RS's breadboards were always good quality, but their 1/4" jacks are poor. They will work for breadboarding purposes, but don't use them in anything that you intend to gig with: They are known for coming apart when appreciably tightened. For those parts, spend the $ for Switchcraft or Neutrik.

[Prince]

Yes those switches/jacks will just be used for this breadboard project.  I definitely intend to order quality jacks/switches for actual builds.