How do I say this... [Small rant]

[karbomusic]

I picked up a store bought pedal today. It was only $40 or so and had some modulation/phase stuff. I figured, why not... I needed a flanger and possibly one of the other effects on it and I don't have time (right now) to go down the R&D path as in whatever I build, even if someone else's schemo, it gets my design changes and so on.

I plug it in, turn it on and made the following observations...

1. Sounds "OK" at best, a little fake for lack of a better term; I think it is all digital but that isn't really the point, just an observation that the goal was number of features not quality of sound.
2. It will be impossible to use this with my rig, the depth even when full reduced is a massive difference in my bypassed tone. And it is going to likely ruin my current wonderful tone.
3. There is no volume or true mix so it must either be always on or signal is boosted (see #2). IOW, turning it on/off during a song is not going to happen with that 6 or more dB change in level.

Other than occasionally (very) putting in in my "I have nothing to do so I'll jam a minute" bedroom rig, it is basically useless to me and sounds not so good.

This isn't a rant about store bought, I have a couple commercial pedals in my rig that I love. It's really about the fact that I assumed this $40 worth of SMD and features in a box would easily be as good or surpass what I am used to and it failed in a few areas. I couldn't help but think of a young player without much cash getting this and being frustrated trying to use it in his band and that maybe DIYing my own stuff has more value that I realized.

It really isn't a rant, just no one else to share it with who would have the slightest idea what I'm talking about. Oh yea, I guess I should read the manual right quick in case I missed something that invalidates all of the above but I'm not expecting that.

[J0K3RX]

Well, now you have options... So, I guess you purchased an Option Box.  1st option - Assuming you saved your receipt, take it back and get a refund. 2nd option - sell it to somebody who is also in the market for an Option Box. 3rd option - crack it opened and peer in at the wondrous works of circuit wizardry and then take your soldering iron to it until you have a neat little pile of components. 4th option - take all of the components left over from the 3rd option and make something, perhaps a Plutonium 238 Space Modulator and use it to destroy the planet. Option 5 - Gorilla Glue it to the dashboard of your car to remind you of your options.... and you can mess with it when a cop pulls you over, start twisting the knobs and flippin the switches, then stop and say"OH SH!T!" then put your hands over your ears and squint and say "If I were you I would RUN!"    The last one is optional.... of course.

[karbomusic]

I'm definitely an option 3/4/5 kind of guy.   My parents hated that when I was growing up, they'd give me some electronic toy on Dec. 25th, by Jan 5th it was in a million pieces and I was making stuff out of the remains.  

[J0K3RX]

I'm definitely an option 3/4/5 kind of guy.   My parents hated that when I was growing up, they'd give me some electronic toy on Dec. 25th, by Jan 5th it was in a million pieces and I was making stuff out of the remains.  

Sound familiar! Hell, I still do that... My parents don't allow me to touch their stuff now when I go over there to visit, but when they're not lookin I sneak and disassemble something like the toaster or flat panel TV, then leave. Just for old time sake...  

I might not be able to fix it but when I get finish with it we're damn sure gonna know what's inside!! lol

[karbomusic]

I might not be able to fix it but when I get finish with it we're damn sure gonna know what's inside!! lol

Cracks me up because that's how it usually went down at my house. Put it back together now? pfft. Dad was cool, he'd bring home random crap like a garage door remote and the receiver board. Next day it was my 8-track tape track changer so I could change tracks while fixing breakfast. Those were the days.

[vigilante397]

Option 5 - Gorilla Glue it to the dashboard of your car to remind you of your options.... and you can mess with it when a cop pulls you over, start twisting the knobs and flippin the switches, then stop and say"OH SH!T!" then put your hands over your ears and squint and say "If I were you I would RUN!"    The last one is optional.... of course.

I vote for this one

But seriously, I totally understand what you mean. I didn't used to, as the concept of "tone" was lost on me until about 3 or 4 years ago. I was having a discussion today with some other guitarists, and we were talking about how almost everyone goes through "the digitech phase" where tone means nothing and it's all about having the most buttons at the lowest price. It's kind of a shock to come out of that phase, because you start to realize that it can cost you some serious money in order to get serious tone (as I'm sure you're well aware). So I'm basically afraid to buy commercial pedals because I feel like if I get a good deal it's going to sound bad, and the only way to get good tone is to pay tons of money or build it myself. And nobody on Facebook understands this dilemma so I have to come here, and I'm afraid if I post too much here I'll just annoy everybody, and .....

Sorry if I derailed your thread

[karbomusic]

And nobody on Facebook understands this dilemma so I have to come here, and I'm afraid if I post too much here I'll just annoy everybody, and .....

Sorry if I derailed your thread

Nope, not a derail at all. I worded my post the way I did because I didn't want to be "that guy" trashing commercial pedals but I was also having some realizations. It goes something like this..

1. Start building pedals, wow, these sound phenomenal, I'm sure it's just ugly baby syndrome but I won't deal with that right now.
2. Time passes, I build/tweak lots of pedals  (with lots of blood, sweat, failures, late nights, scars and tears)  and design a couple myself.
3. I come back to #1 assuming I can grab a cheap pedal that is surely comparable sounding to save time and formally and emotionally find closure and acceptance of ugly baby problem.
4. I find my ugly baby isn't that ugly after all.



There are some really nice commercial pedals out there but I'm reminded of how thankful I am to be able to carve my own tone and be completely satisfied with it when I assumed I was just kidding myself.

[tubegeek]

First off, if you can't tell which baby at the birthday party is the ugly one, it's yours. (My baby is gorgeous. She's 21 now and I was just noticing yesterday what a beauty she has become.)

Second, I like this thread. Smells like DIY spirit!

Third, the anecdote about the 8-Track changer makes me VERY happy. If anybody on this board knows Larry Seven, please say hi: he once demonstrated a vacuum-tube-based 8-Track player at a show and it sounded really good, and I haven't seen him in a long time, and he's a really nice guy.

Random enough for you?

[vigilante397]

There are some really nice commercial pedals out there but I'm reminded of how thankful I am to be able to carve my own tone and be completely satisfied with it when I assumed I was just kidding myself.

DEFINITELY sympathize with that. There are currently 4 commercial pedals on my board:

1) Crybaby wah - hard to beat a Cybaby, though I did perform a handful of mods suggested by a brilliant forum member
2) Korg tuner - DIY tuner is pretty impractical
3) TC Ditto looper - also not a very practical DIY project
4) EHX Soul Food - I've build a few Klones, but frankly I picked this up brand new for less than I can build a Klone for

Every other commercial pedal that I've convinced myself I should try has been disappointing either tonally or price-wise. But they still work for some people. I had the following conversation with a customer at work a while back:

Him: "I've been getting really big into pedals. Tone is the most important thing to me."
Me: "Really? I build pedals! Here, you should check some out. This one is called a Klon Centaur. It's my favorite overdrive ever."
Him: (plugs in and plays a little bit) "Hmmm, I think I still prefer my setup."
Me: "Yeah? What do you use for overdrive?"
Him: "Well I have a couple, but my favorite is the Digitech Grunge."

I didn't even say anything, I just took my pedals and walked out. I was afraid I would end up punching him in the face. And I couldn't tell anyone about it because nobody understands

[blackieNYC]

I don't want to buy another pedal again, since discovering this forum. But, I'm not going to build something like a POG.  And I'm not going to buy a POG. But after seeing a guy put the two head to head, I did buy the Behringer polyphonic pitch shifter.  Ultra harmonizer.  Just like the guy said on you tube, they are about the same but the Behringer has a little more difficulty with minor triads than the POG.  It's a small issue - major triads are great but with others there is an article act of a little bell ringing.  And it's not just my wallet talking but- I think it sounds cool. 
I have it in a looper so I don't have to step on it very often.  This may be how I've already managed to get my money's worth.   The pedal makers are trying to beat us at our game, making things we can't. Let em.  Everyone wins - unless you are in fact making and selling these very types of processors of your own and making some coin.  I don't have a full understanding of that aspect of our community.  Do you post in For Sale perhaps?  If you're selling to touring pros, they shouldn't have a frikkin Behringer anyway. Are folk here or in Digital putting up competition for the EHX "organ" pedals and pitch shifters?  I then apologize for my Behringer. 

[GGBB]

Him: "I've been getting really big into pedals. Tone is the most important thing to me."
Me: "Really? I build pedals! Here, you should check some out. This one is called a Klon Centaur. It's my favorite overdrive ever."
Him: (plugs in and plays a little bit) "Hmmm, I think I still prefer my setup."
Me: "Yeah? What do you use for overdrive?"
Him: "Well I have a couple, but my favorite is the Digitech Grunge."

I'd take the Grunge over the Centaur any day - if I wanted heavy noisy metal distortion, which is probably what that guy was thinking as well. Doesn't mean he has bad taste, just that he doesn't think the Centaur is a very good heavy distortion pedal, and maybe isn't clear about the distinction between an overdrive and a distortion. I remember not knowing that at one point too.

[vigilante397]

I'd take the Grunge over the Centaur any day - if I wanted heavy noisy metal distortion, which is probably what that guy was thinking as well. Doesn't mean he has bad taste, just that he doesn't think the Centaur is a very good heavy distortion pedal, and maybe isn't clear about the distinction between an overdrive and a distortion. I remember not knowing that at one point too.

I would concede that point if he hadn't said, near the beginning of our conversation, "I consider myself more of a blues player than anything."