The Bare Box #2 - Evolution of Another Creature

[smallbearelec]

Here is another possible build "environment". I have defined something that I think is manufacturable and usable, and I am asking for feedback--especially from the engineers here. I'm detailing the path I took, partly to get my own thoughts straight and partly because I figure that the considerations would be interesting to other people who build.

I decided that I wanted something more the size of a BB enclosure that would fit more complex builds, but I wanted to avoid breaking the bank the way another casting might. So I knew from the beginning that this one would be folded sheet metal.

To come up with a prototype for size and shape, I worked the same way I did for #1; using a cutoff wheel, I hacked up a cast enclosure, in this case a 125-BB, and put it back together with Bondo. That gave me a model that I could send to a factory. Their first cut was a two-piece arrangement in 1.2 mm aluminum with cutout for a battery drawer:



My first thought on holding the piece was that the metal was too thin. I am sure that you've all seen sheetmetal boxes that have been stoved in; I wanted to avoid those complaints, so I asked for a heavier gauge. Given my experience with #1, I also wanted studs to secure a board to be physically part of the base. I showed them what I needed by
gluing down standoffs. To my pleasant surprise, they did the next proto with studs riveted in place:



At this point, I decided to build. My original plan was to use 9 mm board-mounted pots and board-mounted jacks, and I built a BMP with that idea. I made it to work, but ultimately decided that the board-mount components would likely introduce more repair problems than the assembly convenience could justify. Time to re-think.

I realized that I could go with solder-term pots and Molex connectors if I hacked up the top plate and cut down the height of the standoffs. So I re-designed the board layout (Thanks again, Bancika!) and built again. I had one "Oh S+%*!" moment when I could not get the pot section plate on because the vertical connectors in front were too tall. Change to horizontal Molex...fixed. I'm especially pleased with the power and signal routing, as it leaves tons of room for circuitry. Five pots can be accommodated easily if you use 12mm.



I think that I will want the end of of the potentiometer plate that contacts the cover to go inward and angle up so as to keep dust out. Does that make sense?

This works nicely, for Me. I'm happy with the mechanical design, and it sounds suitably monstrous. Now for the $64 question: If I build it this way, will they come? I think maybe I was too prescriptive with the internal design of #1; maybe I want to get #2 made completely un-tooled and let other builders figure out how they want the inside to be provisioned. Minimum order is 500 pieces, so if I get enough call for a particular iteration, it can be done.

Comments?

[Keppy]

To me, the appeal of the Bare Box (which I haven't used) is getting the knobs out of the way when stomping. The battery door is nice, too, but no one I personally know uses batteries enough to base a buying decision on that.

I wouldn't use this box as shown in the bottom picture because I prefer board mounted pots. I can't really see a way of doing that without negating the usefulness of the studs and/or the split top.

I'm also wary of the three piece version in general, since as far as I can tell each of the top pieces is only secured on one side when assembled. Am I looking at it wrong? It looks to me like the top screws into the bottom but isn't supported by the sides. I'd be afraid to stomp that piece that holds the switch for fear of flexing the piece or breaking the screws.

I would consider using the two piece version of this box that was wide open inside like the top picture, but it would depend on the circuit design. With board mounted pots I try to avoid having all the pots at one end of the PCB with the weight of the components at the other end, so the more components and space a circuit required the less adequate I would find the space provided for pots.

How's the finish on the bottom? Any pieces or screw heads that stick out or scratch floors? The folded sheet metal enclosures I've seen (admittedly not many) all included rubber feet rather than having recessed screws like cast enclosures.

I think that overall, the way I prefer to build would largely negate the advantages of this box. Thinking about it a little more, what would appeal to me more isn't a small recessed area for knobs but instead a small elevated area for the stomp switch, though that looks pretty ridiculous in my imagination.

Anyway, thanks for working to come up with better enclosures. Hammonds and their clones are nice, but I'm getting sick of stomping on my knobs. Good luck!

[armdnrdy]

Hey Steve,

I salute your diligence in coming up with new enclosure design ideas.

I feel the DIY pedal building community could use/is missing:

Sloped enclosures of varying sizes, similar to the old EHX boxes.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=69070.0;prev_next=prev

These are not available...I have searched extensively.

Larger/jumbo sizes would be welcome as well. When the community was working on Brian's (moosapotamus) ADA Flanger clone..there was no suitable enclosure available. These builds were housed in various enclosures that worked physically but didn't look too good esthetically.

I have a long list of big box builds that could use larger sloped enclosures. Mutron Bi-Phase, Quadra Phaser, ADA STD-1, etc.

[jefe]

Hey Steve, 25 year engineer here. I think you might do well with a folded metal box, especially if the price point is right (obviously). Some of the other folded boxes I've seen around here were inspiring.
My comments:
I love LOVE the idea of a recessed area for the knobs. I'm a gigging musician, and things can get a little crazy on stage (or even in the rehearsal space), so I like my pedals to be rugged. Recessed knobs help in this area. I'd obviously want a somewhat heavier gauge sheet metal as well, to avoid buckling as you've mentioned.
Your pics are a bit hard to understand - can you provide some shots from the side and from various angles?
That said, I think I like the top pictures better. The last pics show a three piece design (I think?) - I don't think I like that. Keep it simple, make it two piece.
I personally have no use for the battery door. Eliminate it to help keep costs down. In fact keep the entire box "blank". The user gets to decide where all holes go.
Forget the standoffs. Most builders don't even use them anyway, so again, you're just adding cost there. If the user wants to install standoffs, they can, in the locations they prefer. Don't decide that for them.
DO install PEM nuts for the four screws that hold the enclosure together. Probably goes without saying, but you don't want to be forced to use pointy sheet metal screws here.
Overall, don't overthink the layout. Don't worry about whether the user is going to use board mounted pots, molex connectors, etc. We're a smart bunch, we'll figure it out :-)  The hard part for us is folding sheet metal. You provide the folded box with recessed area for knobs & the closure hardware, we'll figure out the rest.
Miscellaneous thought:
One of the beauties of this type of box is that the width is somewhat scaleable. Once a sheet metal press is set up to bend the top, it's easy to run, say, three different widths on the same setup - again, this can cut costs for you, while allowing you to offer three different width boxes. Like small, medium, and large sizes. Maybe in 3", 4.5", and 6" widths, for example.

[jefe]

Look for posts by Micfarlow77 - he was making some killer sheet metal boxes at one point, but I'm afraid the pics may be gone due to web rot. They were simple, elegant boxes.

[smallbearelec]

DO install PEM nuts for the four screws that hold the enclosure together.

I have noticed that sheetmetal screws strip out after a few assembly cycles. Will ask for this. Thanks for the suggestion!

So far, I'm hearing that two-piece construction would be preferred. As has been noted, this forces the use of board-mounted pots. But maybe that is not a bad thing.

[armdnrdy]

Look for posts by Micfarlow77 - he was making some killer sheet metal boxes at one point, but I'm afraid the pics may be gone due to web rot. They were simple, elegant boxes.

I saw his boxes in the link that I posted but...he hasn't been active on this site in over a year.

[jefe]

I have noticed that sheetmetal screws strip out after a few assembly cycles. Will ask for this. Thanks for the suggestion!

You're welcome! Glad I could help in some small way.

So far, I'm hearing that two-piece construction would be preferred. As has been noted, this forces the use of board-mounted pots. But maybe that is not a bad thing.

I'm not sure why this forces the use of board-mounted pots. I've built pedals in to some pretty weird boxes, and in tight places, and I have never once had to use board mounted pots. Again, and please don't take offense - You may be overthinking the way in which we use these enclosures, and our design & layout abilities.

[jefe]

I saw his boxes in the link that I posted but...he hasn't been active on this site in over a year.

Yeah, I think he was building those boxes back in '07, and he didn't build many of them, so they're basically ancient history at this point. But if you can find any pics of his boxes, they make a good starting point if you're trying to design something new.

[smallbearelec]

I'm not sure why this forces the use of board-mounted pots. I've built pedals in to some pretty weird boxes, and in tight places, and I have never once had to use board mounted pots...You may be overthinking the way in which we use these enclosures, and our design & layout abilities.

Entirely possible.

[duck_arse]

what are the pots mounting on in this pic?



I'd be inclined to fit a U shaped sub-panel over the molex conns to mount the pots, then drill smaller holes through the top panel. maybe it would be possible to arrange the sub to flip up/out, if it was screwed thu the side panels. (I use sub-panels on eveything tho.)

I'm a fan of the mounted pillars, as low as practicable. they could be adaptor-ed to fit smaller boards etc.

[smallbearelec]

what are the pots mounting on in this pic?
I'd be inclined to fit a U shaped sub-panel over the molex conns to mount the pots, then drill smaller holes through the top panel. maybe it would be possible to arrange the sub to flip up/out, if it was screwed thu the side panels. (I use sub-panels on eveything tho.)

I hacked the top plate at the bend so that the top is two pieces. If I were to get it made this way, I figured that I'd have the two pieces interlock to keep dust out. The sub-panel idea might work if the pot shafts were slightly longer.

[J0K3RX]

I like but I would prefer that the board mounts/standoffs be included but not attached. I would prefer to place them myself since my boards vary in size.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Does anybody remember the pedalenclosures boxes? I think those were exactly what you are trying to achieve here. Raised stomps and easy access to the pots/switches.

Something like this:



If I could find these in the correct size needed for some bigger builds.... I'd be ALL OVER them. 

[Arcane Analog]

I salute your diligence in coming up with new enclosure design ideas.

I feel the DIY pedal building community could use/is missing:

Sloped enclosures of varying sizes, similar to the old EHX boxes.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=69070.0;prev_next=prev

These are not available...I have searched extensively.

Larger/jumbo sizes would be welcome as well. When the community was working on Brian's (moosapotamus) ADA Flanger clone..there was no suitable enclosure available. These builds were housed in various enclosures that worked physically but didn't look too good esthetically.

There are several different sizes of folded enclosures on eBay.

There are several different sizes shapes available on this forum as well including two different options for Big Muff boxes.

[armdnrdy]

I do not recall seeing anyone selling large folded enclosures on this forum.

I have checked ebay and have performed several extensive searches on the net...and have drawn a blank.

Do you have the links for any of these?

Edit:

Mac Walker just PM'd me about his enclosures.

I contacted him some time ago to see if he could make any larger folded enclosures. I need a few 8" X 6" for some of the projects I have worked out.

I'm currently working on a Final Phase build and Macs largest "double wide" enclosure might work for that.

[Arcane Analog]

I do not recall seeing anyone selling large folded enclosures on this forum.

The search function is your friend. There are others on this site and eBay.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=107121.msg971629#msg971629

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106728.0

[armdnrdy]

I do not recall seeing anyone selling large folded enclosures on this forum.

The search function is your friend. There are others on this site and eBay.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=107121.msg971629#msg971629

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106728.0

Thank you for the links but...maybe my request was arcane.

If you look through my posts in this thread...you will clearly see that the projects I need to house will not fit in any of the enclosures you linked.

Oh and....I do know how to use the search function....probably better than most. I usually research everything before I ever post a question or request.

[Arcane Analog]

Thank you for the links but...maybe my request was arcane.

If you look through my posts in this thread...you will clearly see that the projects I need to house will not fit in any of the enclosures you linked.

Oh and....I do know how to use the search function....probably better than most. I usually research everything before I ever post a question or request.

I responded to your post in this thread. The links I provided are exactly what you described as directly quoted below and were easily found with a search.

Sloped enclosures of varying sizes, similar to the old EHX boxes.

These are not available...I have searched extensively.

Larger/jumbo sizes would be welcome as well.

You have a 125B, 125BB and full 70s Muff sized box here as options.

Finished up a run of sloped enclosures 125B and 1590BB size. They are both slightly wider than the cast aluminum boxes since i needed to make room for the flange that the screws mount to. Any projects that are meant for the cast aluminum boxes should fit in these just fine.







I also have some Muff enclosures left for sale as well.

Thanks!

I just finished my first small batch of enclosures!

[Arcane Analog]

Mac Walker just PM'd me about his enclosures.

I contacted him some time ago to see if he could make any larger folded enclosures. I need a few 8" X 6" for some of the projects I have worked out.

I'm currently working on a Final Phase build and Macs largest "double wide" enclosure might work for that.

Mac's double wide is 5.5". The Big Muff enclosure I posted is also 5.5" and is longer.

I typed "sloped enclosure" into eBay's search feature. These have been available for several years. Hammond and several other manufacturers all make something similar with or without vents. If you cannot fit your circuits in these boxes at 6", 8" and 9.6" you are doing it wrong.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SE853N-8-Aluminum-Pedal-Enclosure-Sloped-Instrument-Console-Case-/261536102303?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ce4c4379f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SF662-FULL-Aluminum-Pedal-Sloped-Instrument-Console-Enclosure-Case-Box-for-DIY-/261717650307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cef966b83

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SF1083-FULL-Aluminum-Pedal-Enclosure-Sloped-Instrument-Console-case-for-DIY-/261284491912?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd5c4f288