School me on solder please???

FuzzFanatic71 · September 03, 2015, 09:24:46 AM

Hi guys, I have a problem. I used to survive on good quality solder that my dad "acquired" from work. He was an electronics technician for our government telecommunications utility back in the day. Sadly over the years that source has ran dry and I've had to bite the bullet and buy solder from evilbay.
All I seem to be able to get is that crap that needs too much heat to melt and still doesn't stick properly. And just makes my soldering look ugly and amateurish. My dad taught me soldering back in 1981 so amateur looking soldering is quite an embarrassment.
How do I get my hands on the good stuff? What should I look for when ordering to get what I need?
I live in the mountains and can't just go into an electronic store so I need to get everything online.

amptramp · September 03, 2015, 09:52:27 AM

First of all, it has to be rosin core, not acid core. Acid core is used for plumbing but will corrode copper wire.

You should be looking for tin-lead eutectic which is 63% tin, 37% lead. Eutectic means the alloying proportion that is the lowest melting point. The usual size is 0.031" for ease of soldering around IC sockets. In spite of everything you are told, lead does not pollute the environment - you can check out soldering that has been submerged in water and the joints have not lost much or any mass, so lead does not get into the environment. One thing lead will do is suppress the tendency for tin to grow "whiskers", single crystal growths that can short out against adjacent connections.

If all you can find is 60% tin, 40% lead, that will work, it will just have a "plastic" state during cooling where any movement will result in a bad joint.

FuzzFanatic71 · September 03, 2015, 11:46:16 AM

Yeah it is rosin core 60/40 tin-lead solder. Terrible stuff. I'll jump on evilbay later and order some 63/37 tin-lead and I'll be back in business. I have so much I need to do and no real solder to do it. That crappy stuff won't go to waste though. Will use it to make up my special snake shot loads. Summer is coming hear which means lots of snakes on the property.
Thanks for the feedback amptramp.

pickdropper · September 03, 2015, 02:32:53 PM

Not all solders all created equal. You can certainly get a good joint out of 60/40 if it's decent solder and your technique is good.

That said, I agree with amptramp. 63/37 is more forgiving and has no down sides that I know of. I like Kester 63/37. Check out Techni-Tool. I just priced out a 1lb roll at under $20. It was considerably higher most other places.

davent · September 03, 2015, 10:10:24 PM

Lot's of Australians in these parts that i'm sure could give you leads on where to source decent solder close to home and not have to waste money on ebay.
dave

Keppy · September 04, 2015, 12:20:15 AM

60/40 is fine, though not as nice as 63/37 for the reasons noted. The difference between the two types is not enough to account for the problems you describe (which sound more like the difference between leaded/unleaded solder). You might just have a crappy brand/batch of solder that doesn't meet spec or was mislabeled. Buy from a reputable source and you should get the results you're accustomed to from either type.

Also, the rosin flux core is important, since flux is what cleans the surface and allows the solder to stick. Your non-sticking problem sounds like the quality or amount of flux is insufficient. Again, try a different brand. Good luck!

chumbox · September 04, 2015, 02:01:55 AM

I'm in Australia, I use 60/40 and it works fine. As mentioned it's not as nice as other types but it's cheap and easy to find (I've used Bunnings, Dick Smith, Jaycar, all seem pretty similar - sorry for the Aussie shop references all). I found initially my soldering iron wasn't up to scratch so I bought a proper soldering station (nothing expensive) and found 60/40 works great when you have a better control over the temperature you solder at. Well that's my experience.

FuzzFanatic71 · September 04, 2015, 02:39:07 AM

Quote from: chumbox on September 04, 2015, 02:01:55 AM
I'm in Australia, I use 60/40 and it works fine. As mentioned it's not as nice as other types but it's cheap and easy to find (I've used Bunnings, Dick Smith, Jaycar, all seem pretty similar - sorry for the Aussie shop references all). I found initially my soldering iron wasn't up to scratch so I bought a proper soldering station (nothing expensive) and found 60/40 works great when you have a better control over the temperature you solder at. Well that's my experience.

I have actually been thinking of buying an inexpensive soldering station. I'm just worried about the increased heat it takes to work with this solder burning out components, like diodes, transistors, caps and also the switches. Being so far from a big city its not like I can just go out and grab another if I fry something. I'm not at the stage where I can afford to buy in bulk. Also the 60/40 solder connections just look bad. Everything I was ever taught about what a bad solder joint looks like this crap solder looks like. Makes it harder to debug when it all looks so terrible.
I'll keep an open mind though.
Thanks all for the feedback and suggestions.

chumbox · September 04, 2015, 03:02:42 AM

Quote from: FuzzFanatic71 on September 04, 2015, 02:39:07 AM
I have actually been thinking of buying an inexpensive soldering station. I'm just worried about the increased heat it takes to work with this solder burning out components, like diodes, transistors, caps and also the switches. Being so far from a big city its not like I can just go out and grab another if I fry something. I'm not at the stage where I can afford to buy in bulk. Also the 60/40 solder connections just look bad. Everything I was ever taught about what a bad solder joint looks like this crap solder looks like. Makes it harder to debug when it all looks so terrible.
I'll keep an open mind though.
Thanks all for the feedback and suggestions.

Hey Fuzz. I bought this exact one which is normally $100. Turns out it's only $55 for Father's Day (today only) and they can ship it to you. Haven't burnt a thing out yet and trust me I'm no careful kinda guy. Have a good weekend

http://www.dicksmith.com.au/tools-hobbyist/temperature-controlled-soldering-station-dsau-t2200

antonis · September 04, 2015, 05:03:56 AM

I think the tip to buy good solder is to get good soldering tip..

Electric Warrior · September 04, 2015, 07:23:13 AM

Quote from: Keppy on September 04, 2015, 12:20:15 AM
60/40 is fine, though not as nice as 63/37 for the reasons noted. The difference between the two types is not enough to account for the problems you describe (which sound more like the difference between leaded/unleaded solder). You might just have a crappy brand/batch of solder that doesn't meet spec or was mislabeled. Buy from a reputable source and you should get the results you're accustomed to from either type.

Also, the rosin flux core is important, since flux is what cleans the surface and allows the solder to stick. Your non-sticking problem sounds like the quality or amount of flux is insufficient. Again, try a different brand. Good luck!

This. 60/40 works just fine, but the brand can make a huge difference.

Quote from: FuzzFanatic71 on September 04, 2015, 02:39:07 AM
I'm just worried about the increased heat it takes to work with this solder burning out components, like diodes, transistors, caps and also the switches. Being so far from a big city its not like I can just go out and grab another if I fry something. I'm not at the stage where I can afford to buy in bulk. Also the 60/40 solder connections just look bad. Everything I was ever taught about what a bad solder joint looks like this crap solder looks like. Makes it harder to debug when it all looks so terrible.
I'll keep an open mind though.
Thanks all for the feedback and suggestions.

The difference in melting point is only 7°C. You should heat sink diodes and transistors in any case. I never managed to damage any capacitors by soldering them in, but I've once had a really crappy, cheap switch that had a melting problem. It's usually not an issue, though.

R.G. · September 04, 2015, 09:04:55 AM

I'm surprised we haven't heard from the folks who are deathly afraid of the lead in tin-lead solder.

Just to round that issue out - if you live where you can buy 60-40 or eutectic 63-37 tin-lead, use it. Lead-free is significantly harder to use well.

Electric Warrior · September 04, 2015, 10:31:31 AM

Is leaded solder completely banned in any countries? Here in europe it's still available. RoHS only bans devices that use it.

duck_arse · September 04, 2015, 11:26:54 AM

that dick smith iron shows in its speccs that it is not water resistant, and has no backlight display or barometric altimeter. personally, I tell people never to buy anything at dick smith, from bitter experience back when it was an electronics store.

rockby in melbourne recently had solder on special (they may still have known brand irons on special), but even now the stuff they have (consolidated alloys) is cheap enough, and way better qual than jaycars, I'll give you the tip.

tommycataus · September 07, 2015, 09:19:37 AM

Nice one Duck, I was about to recommend Jaycar as I've never had problems with their 60/40 (not lived here for long so it was my first port of call). Thanks for the tip on Rockby.

duck_arse · September 07, 2015, 10:46:07 AM

tommy, I have a roll of "duratech" from jaycar. it bubbles, as though it's boiling, as you take the iron away. I mentioned this in a thread a while back, but got no conclusive answer as to what it was. I don't remember seeing similar with other brands.

hymenoptera · September 07, 2015, 02:13:50 PM

I used to use the 60/40 rosin core from Radio Shack, but since moving to various offerings of 63/37 in Kester 44 and Kester 245 I'll never look back. I mostly use .020 and .031 diam, but I also have some 60/40 in .063 I think it is, I use that for 1/4" jacks and bigger stuff, and it's really not much harder to use than the 63/37 stuff.

I try to buy mine off ebay, target prices around $20 for a lb, because I refuse to pay $50 for a lb of solder. Sometimes you can find half-spools for crazy cheap, and it's worth it to find yourself a nice selection to choose from anyways, at least until you settle for a particular size and style that suits you.

As others have said, avoid the lead-free stuff unless you like a challenge

PRR · September 07, 2015, 05:02:11 PM

> target prices around $20 for a lb

Keep your price flexible. The price of solder IS the price of Tin (plus markup), and Tin has been up/down/up/up in recent years. In the last 5 years, over $14 and under $7.

Large bulk-load price of Tin:

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/tin/all/

hymenoptera · September 07, 2015, 07:04:24 PM

Quote from: PRR on September 07, 2015, 05:02:11 PM
> target prices around $20 for a lb

Keep your price flexible. The price of solder IS the price of Tin (plus markup), and Tin has been up/down/up/up in recent years. In the last 5 years, over $14 and under $7.

Large bulk-load price of Tin:

Interesting way to look at it.

I guess since I'm mostly buying "used" I would never even consider how the fluctuating price of tin played into it. Certainly something to think about if we all start to notice the price of solder climbing.

hymenoptera · September 07, 2015, 07:06:41 PM

Quote from: antonis on September 04, 2015, 05:03:56 AM
I think the tip to buy good solder is to get good soldering tip..

So true. The solder you use is only one tool in the bigger process. The iron you use, the correct tip for the job, even your choice of flux, and whether you need flux for a given job or not. It all goes towards getting a satisfying joint!

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School me on solder please???