honey tone opamp: what can trounce tl081?

[slewrated]

i made this account to ask this one question- in your experience opamp sounds more 'soulful' than tl081/082?

you know the kind of sound im talking about- juicy 2nd order harmonics, sparkle, creaminess... 081 might be the 'one' but who knows?

i've looked into ones with slower slew rate but classics such as ua741 don't seem like the ticket that i'm looking for. too slow and it dulls the sound.

what about you guys? what's your fav 8 legged wonder?

[mcknib]

Burr Brown OPA series op amps are the ones most folks would say are warm and soulful or warm at least in a circuit as far as I know it's now Texas Instruments that make the OPA2134, OPA275 etc dual op amps

I've never tried any single BB op amps, I think BB and TI joined forces a while back obviously with their reputation they're more expensive whether it's better than a TL081 I don't know I like the 081.

[R.G.]

you know the kind of sound im talking about- juicy 2nd order harmonics, sparkle, creaminess... 081 might be the 'one' but who knows?

Opamps don't do second order harmonics, sparkle, creaminess, whatever, at least not on their own. The circuits around the opamp are what gives the sound the character. Opamps are not perfect, but their imperfections are very small and probably inaudible compared to the "juicy, creamy" sound you're describing. Think circuits, not opamp type number.

[Scruffie]

If you're putting your stock in an special Opamp existing you can always check the handy "How nice is it?" number shown next to the parts at stores

[slewrated]

you know the kind of sound im talking about- juicy 2nd order harmonics, sparkle, creaminess... 081 might be the 'one' but who knows?

Opamps don't do second order harmonics, sparkle, creaminess, whatever, at least not on their own. The circuits around the opamp are what gives the sound the character. Opamps are not perfect, but their imperfections are very small and probably inaudible compared to the "juicy, creamy" sound you're describing. Think circuits, not opamp type number.

that seem to be the technical consensus but i beg to differ. opamp itself is very much a circuit and a highly significant one at that at any gain structure. sure there r a lot of variables and how they behave accordingly but the general impression more or less remains in the same scale, from my experience- jfet input ones sound more 'slick' (in a good way) and lower slewrate smoother, ect.

[R.G.]

that seem to be the technical consensus but i beg to differ. opamp itself is very much a circuit and a highly significant one at that at any gain structure.

You have my permission to differ. I suppose we'll have to agree to remain that way.

I have a long history of hearing the "which [insert magic component of the moment] is good, while all the rest are what you wipe off your shoes after a walk in the park. I have actually taken part in a public test where professional guitarists voted on whether they heard a difference or not in opamps substituted in the same circuit. They all had opinions, strong ones, and the results were a dead heat over the range of opamps.

The supposed micro-differences in components, especially opamps, is an article of faith in the tweako hifi community. It remains unproven in guitar pedals, especially in distortion pedals. The hifi folks got burned so badly on the few tests the Golden Ears would participate in that they've fallen back on saying that differences exist that only the human ear can tell, no measuring instrument.

Sigh. Maybe.

[anotherjim]

My hearing certainly isn't test equipment, I really wish that it was. Hence, I have no right to champion anything for op-amp "tone".

I do wonder about noise. I think our perception of a signal is different when we hear noise behind that signal. A quiet circuit seems warmer and calmer to me - a noisy circuit seems a bit nervous or even exciting.

[slewrated]

i tried out op07 in the circuit. this one sounds just as good if not better! low slewrate is the ticket for the circuit that im using 

[Bugsi]

I just want to agree with R.G.
An op-amp is generally unremarkable as a tone-shaping element, unless you drive it beyond its capabilities.  The point of using an op-amp in a circuit is usually to take advantage of its nearly-ideal characteristics, and to lower the part-count and cost for its specific use case.  You can certainly pick the wrong op-amp for a given use case, but that's just a case of a bad design.

For audio use, if you're wanting to tone-shape in op-amp circuits, do it with active filters and such around the op-amp.  You can toss pretty much any pin-compatible op-amp in place of a TL08x and not tell any difference, as long as things like idle current draw aren't important (but in battery-driven circuits, that usually *IS* important).

FWIW, the TL07x is supposedly the "low noise" version of the TL08x.  In practice I believe TL08x chips were just chips off the TL07x production line that tested as slightly out-of-spec for the TL07x, and was labeled as TL08x sold off at a lower price.  [Some industrial uses like military applications will only buy tightly-toleranced parts, regardless of whether it makes any actual difference.]  I'd highly suspect that today the TL07x and TL08x partes are actually just the exact same chip off the same production line with different labels on them.  As a rule I just buy the TL07x chips, but when a TL08x was all I had available, I've used them and they've always been indistinguishable.

As far as I know, the only actual real advantage the TL08x ever had was that Radio Shack carried them, so if you needed an op-amp in a hurry and didn't care about paying a dollar or two for it, you could pick one up at a Radio Shack.

[pinkjimiphoton]

that seem to be the technical consensus but i beg to differ. opamp itself is very much a circuit and a highly significant one at that at any gain structure.

You have my permission to differ. I suppose we'll have to agree to remain that way.

I have a long history of hearing the "which [insert magic component of the moment] is good, while all the rest are what you wipe off your shoes after a walk in the park. I have actually taken part in a public test where professional guitarists voted on whether they heard a difference or not in opamps substituted in the same circuit. They all had opinions, strong ones, and the results were a dead heat over the range of opamps.

The supposed micro-differences in components, especially opamps, is an article of faith in the tweako hifi community. It remains unproven in guitar pedals, especially in distortion pedals. The hifi folks got burned so badly on the few tests the Golden Ears would participate in that they've fallen back on saying that differences exist that only the human ear can tell, no measuring instrument.

Sigh. Maybe.

rg.....    i love you , man....

op.... you're arguing with the guy who probably knows the most about this stuff on the planet.

welcome to the forum... but opamps sounding different? especially under heavy distortion?

i have a whole ass load of opamps. i've bought just about every single one at one time or another and used many, and tried many...

and i have to totally agree with rg. other than noise? i don't hear a lick of a difference. i tend to socket shit and plug in whatever sounds best. if i notice no difference, i put whatever is the cheapest in there. why waste a 3 dollar oa if a 50 cent one will do?

marginal diffs at best. in a dano honey tone? without pretty radical circuit changes that most likely aren't worth doing being smd's and all, i really can't see any opamp giving anything any form of "creamy" anything... in fact, the opposite. opamps tend to be more edgy than creamy, with more definition than the sludge that goes with it.

so... if your ears are that golden, you must be young as hell. take good care of 'em. use earplugs!!!

but i gotta side with rg on this one, cream? germanium fuzzes maybe. but not any opamp i have ever heard, jfet or other.

ymmv
but i doubt it.