Best Dual Operational Amplifier

[maiko]

Im building a small 1 watt amp

and i know there is a wide selection of dual operational amplifiers outhere

my question/inquiry is your experiences with OPamps eg. 4558 1458 4560 lm833 tl072 etc would be best if the idea is to create a clean amp.

Thanks in Advance for any replies

[R.G.]

Oh, Lord!! Please, NO!!

There are infinitely extended squabbles all over the internet about which opamp is the "best" for clean sound. This is much like the medieval discussions on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Only on the internet, the most expensive opamp is usually crowned the momentary king. And real hifi tweakos think ICs are the work of the audio devil.

The "right" answer, if there is one, is to put in a socket for the pinout of one of the many, many pin-compatible dual opamps and swap opamps until you find one you're in love with, or get tired.

[Mark Hammer]

Now why'd you wanna hurt RG like that?  What'd he ever do to you?

The many kinds of op-amps that exist only exist because they address different sorts of challenges and circumstances.  It's a bit like asking "what's the best spice?".  Well, what are you seasoning with it?

If you look at any commercial 1W amp, you'll generally find a 4558 or TL072 in the slot you are looking to fill.  I would trust the judgment of those who could pick ANY dual op-amp, but choe those.

[PRR]

What R.G. said. He's spot-on.

But I typed this, I'm gonna post it.
__________________________________________
If you don't know any better, use TL072.

It is a GREAT little chip, very stable, better than a guitar needs, and cheap.

"Best" gets into "Best for what?" and "Best for who?" questions. What's the best car? For me alone, me and a keg of beer, me and a whole soccer team, me on Rockytop Road in a blizzard....? What is the best lover?

4558 is an old-old favorite, but audibly "inferior" on fine audio. It is my 1967 Cougar-- drove fine but is no 2002 Honda. 4558 is also become collectible.

LM833 is a very good amp for LOW impedance work. In most guitar-amp work a TL072 will meet or beat it, cheaper. 

Or.... if you are pulling 4560s out of old CD players, use them. Few opamps suck.

[slashandburn]

There's even some people out there who claim certain 4558 chips sound superior to others. I've socketed a few and tried swapping out some of the usual suspects, personally I couldn't notice any real difference, but then my hearing is suspect. I just use tl072's mostly.  If I'm planning on powering the board exclusively from battery I sometime use the 062 (blindly, I have it in my head it consumes less power than the 072 but I'm no expert and sometimes misunderstand these things).

[Mark Hammer]

And if I may be so bold, you know you're going to want to turn that sucker up high enough thatbthe audio quality will seriously degrade.  At which point  it won't really matter what you use.

If it is intended as a battery powered amp, using 8AA cells for a robust 12vdc will make a MUCH bigger difference than any chip choice.

That's one of the great lessons of DIY: sometimes things we fret over don't matter very much in the grand scheme of things.

[antonis]

OK with Op-Amps but now you guys threw a couple of elementary queries, like <how many angels can dance on the head of a pin> or  <what's the best spice?> with no further mood for an answer... 


P.S.
Same for <What is the best lover?> but I don't need an answer for this...

[roseblood11]

P.S.
Same for <What is the best lover?> but I don't need an answer for this...

72 virgins dancing on the head of a pin?!?

[amz-fx]

Let me recommend this excellent paper on opamps. It contains actual measurements of many chips that have been used in pedals, though it is more applicable to high-end audio applications. It's a big file to download but if you are interested in this subject, it is well worth a look.

Samuel Groner's Opamp Distortion Paper

regards, Jack

[Perrow]

I use the rule "the best one is one I've already paid for" i.e. it waits for me in my parts drawer.

[R.G.]

Sorry - I can be calmer now. 

I just hate to see the needless (and mostly worthless) arguments about esoterica in part choice makes a difference in sound.

The answer to this is that of course there are differences. There are even differences in response between two parts made from adjoining sections of the same silicon wafer.

The problem is to make intelligent guesses about whether these differences will make audible differences, and even then whether the normal variations in the much larger quantity of other parts, including frequency response determining resistors and capacitors will not mask any contribution of the opamp.

Jack contributed a link to a paper on opamp distortion. Earlier works in this same vein are from Walt Jung ("Audio IC OpampApplications") and Douglas Self's small signal design book.

However, there is a great deal of information to wade through, and much of it is difficult to understand for someone who just wants to know what the best opamp is.

I really think that the best answer to the question of what the best opamp for your pedal/amplifier work might be is  - an IC socket. There are too many tiny  variables to otherwise make a cogent answer to a beginner. Putting in a socket and actually listening to sound through a simple circuit while swapping opamps in the **same** set of Rs and Cs will tell the inquiring mind a whole lot about the differences between opamps, very quickly.

[vigilante397]

When I saw the title of this thread I knew it was going to be a bit messy, and when I saw that R.G., Mark Hammer, and Paul had already posted I knew there was nothing left for me to do but grab some popcorn and get my "Like" button ready.

I use the rule "the best one is one I've already paid for" i.e. it waits for me in my parts drawer.

But I definitely agree with this rule

[StephenGiles]

I always work on the basis of whatever comes out of the bag first, if it works it's fantastic!!

[Guitar Poppa]

Im building a small 1 watt amp

and i know there is a wide selection of dual operational amplifiers outhere

my question/inquiry is your experiences with OPamps eg. 4558 1458 4560 lm833 tl072 etc would be best if the idea is to create a clean amp.

Thanks in Advance for any replies

hello to everybody on this thread !

It is interesting to see how this simple question raised so hot answers!
I like RG's answers : just experiment ! (and maybe the best choice will be subjective, never mind...)
RG's second point of vew (angry against purists who seek the tiniest sound detail that would be typical of a particular component) is real, but can be discussed beyond th sonic detail.

A few propositions, after my experience in building guitar and bass amps...

--- For a little 1W amp, TLO72 is surely the most basic and realistic choice. Never a problem with this OpAmp !
And more : its FET technology is very adapted with high impedance guitar circuits...

--- You could remind the antique 4558. It can give a soft saturation. This is the typical case where you have to make concrete testing, trying several series and choose after your own impression.

--- Perhaps better or high end components would not be usefull and  valued in such a little amp... How will be the power section : discrete or OpAmp ? cheap or good quality ? It ain't no use to have a good preamp if the power section is rough !

--- But there can be other arguments : NE5532 is a classic good OpAmp, the same way TLO72 is a classic common one. More fidelity if it can be transmitted by the power section... And another good point : it can work on low supply voltage. It will be good if your batteries are low. Its major defect in your case could be its consumption is higher than the TLO's...

In fact, a "good" component should not be only choosen on bandwith point of view. Supply conditions, saturation, consumption are also important parameters.

--- There are lots of other dual OpAmps, some from the stompoxes world, some from the Hifi or high end PA world... Don't forget you want just build an 1W amp... If it were for high quality and powerfull gear, we could speak about OPAxx series, or discrete components. But it its not the same story !

have a good time with your experiments !
Guitar poppa

PS : Something that is not quite in the subject, but still a bit ...
http://guitarpoppa.com/?p=2801

[maiko]

Whew . .    I feel like kid whos gotten a scolding for asking his christmas gifts in november. hehehehe   

Thanks to all the responses.   and links.

I went with "what ever is waiting and available in my parts Bin"  hehehehehe 4558 it was.

Thanks Again. 

[armdnrdy]

I went with "what ever is waiting and available in my parts Bin"  hehehehehe 4558 it was.

Oh my goodness! I can't believe that you would go with a 4558 for a clean amp!

There are much better dual op amps available, which make a huge difference in sound quality! 

[12Bass]

If a "clean amp" is a intended to be used with a guitar through a regular guitar speaker, then there seems to be little point in using the best available op amp because high system resolution is not of utmost importance.  However, if the application were for a high fidelity headphone amp used for critical listening with high quality headphones, then it might make more sense to look for a better part....

[Perrow]

might

"Might" being the operative word.

[deadastronaut]

1 watt amp...(search punch 1w amp)

TDA7052A.  done..

[12Bass]

"Might" being the operative word.

For high fidelity applications, I would definitely look for a better op amp than a TL072 or 4558 (e.g. ADA4627-1).  However, my point was that the subtle improvement would probably not be audible with a typical (low fidelity) guitar rig.