I think I'm done building clones

[vigilante397]

That's right, I'm done. It was fun and I learned a lot, but from a business point of view I'm getting sick of it. I started out building the occasional copy of this or that for a friend for a little bit of money just to cover parts costs and give me a bit for my time, but word got out that I was building sweet pedals cheap and the next thing I know people are asking if I'll build a Klon for $75 or a Deep Blue delay for $45! It wasn't a big deal when most of my stuff was vero or ferric etched boards in spraypainted boxes with waterslides, then I could get away with doing a RAT for $85. But with CNC milled PCBs and engraved enclosures (sometimes I get fancy and engrave powdercoated enclosures) it's not even worth my time to build you a clone of a Boss pedal that you can buy used for $40.

In other news, I'm working on a couple new designs, and hopefully I'll have the first one (currently known affectionately as the Proto-Drive) done in a fortnight or so.

[strassercaster]

i am in the same boat. people think anything to do with music is a hobby. these people expect us to spend an entire day off or 5 hour evening to  build them a pedal for 5-10 bucks an hour and thats if we dont make a single mistake ,have done our homework, ordered everything we need, didnt have a nightmare painting it(i have had the worst luck painting boxes.!!!)I have a few friends jever pay me or answer my calls. Or they want to trade for something.

even worse i have a friend that is a tech for a guitar god. the guitar god fell in love with my gain pedal. i figure ok finally ill get 200. for a pedal. No he thought it was going to be free. Ya i got a day job working 55 hours a week build pedals 15 hours a week to pay for groceries and other necassaties this millionare thinks i should give him a free pedal.I dont see him offering t mow my lawn or rake mu leaves for free ha ha.

I do love building pedals and get a natural high when i fire up a stripboard univibe i spent 6 hours on dont get me wrong. I ahet working for peanuts especially a skill like electronics and pedal building.I would be interested in some engravong. if you would be interested in doing some boxes.

[R.G.]

It's good to see a new generation discovering what has been posted here many many times - selling pedals is a business, and business in general isn't all that mentally complicated, but it is quite demanding.

Seriously folks - read the many posts about pedal making as a business that have been posted here. Your pedal building will be hugely popular - as long as you are essentially giving them away at or below your real costs.

It's much like the music scene in Austin for the last few decades. Good, even great musicians could not support themselves because so very many medium to fair musicians would play for free for the exposure. Even your original, new designs will be tough to sell for a real profit, because even if they are truly dynamite they are competing with the many people who think it's fun to sell a pedal for the cost of parts and have the built-in advertising of it being an "improved" clone of a well-known pedal.

Very, very few people can support themselves building pedals. Even fewer can have profitable businesses making pedals. It's that "business" word that keeps getting in the way.

[amptramp]

@strassercaster

Maybe you should tell us who this jerk guitarist was so if any of us run into him, we can add a douchebag surcharge.

[vigilante397]

Your pedal building will be hugely popular - as long as you are essentially giving them away at or below your real costs.

And that's been what stopped me from doing this from the beginning, it felt cool to be popular. I liked that everyone in the (albeit small) local scene knows who I am so I ignored that I was making $2-5 an hour labor, as mentioned assuming I made no mistakes, so if it was above the cost of parts I wrote it off as a profit.

I still don't plan on this being my main source of income, but I'm taking this stance for the same reason I've quit my last few bands: it's fun and I love doing it, and it sure as hell beats sitting around watching TV, but I'm tired of pouring my heart and soul and countless hours into it for a few bucks here and there. I'll still build for personal enjoyment and for friends, just as I'll still make music for personal enjoyment and do session work for friends, but I should be spending a lot more time on school and family.

I would be interested in some engraving. if you would be interested in doing some boxes.

With me slowing down my building my CNC machine will be getting much less use, so I think I probably will start doing this. I had planned to do it from the beginning to help offset the cost of the machine, but the learning curve prevented me from doing it initially. But I think I'm comfortable enough that I could at least do enclosure engravings and prototype PCB milling for those that aren't ready to drop money on professional manufacturing. I'll let everyone know when I'm ready to do it, but I have to finish up the last few projects I've promised people first.

[electrosonic]

I bet there are many small pedal companies that give away pedals to established acts to get exposure (and I guess Fender and Gibson do the same thing). The flip side of that would be the expectation of free gear for established acts.

Andrew.

[R.G.]

And that's been what stopped me from doing this from the beginning, it felt cool to be popular. I liked that everyone in the (albeit small) local scene knows who I am so I ignored that I was making $2-5 an hour labor, as mentioned assuming I made no mistakes, so if it was above the cost of parts I wrote it off as a profit.

Those are perfectly valid reasons to build things at or below cost: it's advertising or just fun. As long as you know this and accept it for what it is, that's completely reasonable. The folks that get into trouble are the ones who jump into to it as a moneymaker without thinking.

I'm a big believer in people doing as they choose as long as (1) they know what they're doing and (2) they don't hurt innocent bystanders in the process.

I still don't plan on this being my main source of income, but I'm taking this stance for the same reason I've quit my last few bands: it's fun and I love doing it, and it sure as hell beats sitting around watching TV, but I'm tired of pouring my heart and soul and countless hours into it for a few bucks here and there. I'll still build for personal enjoyment and for friends, just as I'll still make music for personal enjoyment and do session work for friends, but I should be spending a lot more time on school and family.

Good plan. Making music is good for the soul. Well, making anything that makes you happy and doesn't hurt innocent bystanders is good for the soul.

I'm a crap guitar player. I'd have been a lot better if I had spent more hours practicing guitar than circuits. But then I would not be as good at circuits. It's a tradeoff.

[LightSoundGeometry]

it has to come from the heart. I do this out of the love of music and keeping myself busy. it keeps the mind sharp and I love using tools coming from a construction/labor background. I feel a lot smarter, patience has grown and my mind thinks in a more critical manor now.

mass marketed and mass produced cookie cutters have given consumers cheap stuff.

if you build it they will come. those in search of real tone can see it and hear it. mojo works!

[Gus]

One should not give work away.  Get a written contract.

RG's post about Austin is something to think about

[LightSoundGeometry]

.

[Jdansti]

When someone asks you to build a pedal, just saying no is one way to avoid giving away your precious labor. Another way is to over price it. "Oh, for me to make a Klon, I'd have to charge you $300". If they say no thanks, then fine. If they say great, here's my money, then you'll be adequately compensated.

[PRR]

> over price it.

Also quote a long delay because you are busy with bigger projects you can't talk about.

[karbomusic]

Lots of good advice above. Regardless of business or hobby, you only get so many hours on earth, then you die - charge accordingly.

[vigilante397]

I'd have been a lot better if I had spent more hours practicing guitar than circuits. But then I would not be as good at circuits.

I for one am very glad you spent as many hours as you did working with circuits.

one of the first things you need to know is how things work, sound and so forth. Using known verified circuits gives a student a good foundation to start from.

Exactly. Kind of hard to start building originals right from the start

> over price it.

Also quote a long delay because you are busy with bigger projects you can't talk about.

Both very excellent ideas. Another problem I had is that I would always get excited and stay up late building and sometimes have an order finished within 24 hours, so people started to expect really fast turnarounds which I can't usually provide, especially when school is in session.

[dbp512]

Another problem I had is that I would always get excited and stay up late building and sometimes have an order finished within 24 hours, so people started to expect really fast turnarounds which I can't usually provide, especially when school is in session.

That is what you call "expedited service", which ordinarily costs 3x the pedal. This time you upgraded them for free, to show off your most excellent service.

[FuzzFanatic71]

@strassercaster

Maybe you should tell us who this jerk guitarist was so if any of us run into him, we can add a douchebag surcharge.

Billy Corgan perhaps! It kind of fits his profile. He is a major douchebag with a sense of entitlement.

[LightSoundGeometry]

@strassercaster

Maybe you should tell us who this jerk guitarist was so if any of us run into him, we can add a douchebag surcharge.

Billy Corgan perhaps! It kind of fits his profile. He is a major douchebag with a sense of entitlement.

me thinks it is johnny lang. 

[Ice-9]

It's either a business or a hobby. Trying to make it both will end in  A: not wanting to build for a hobby B: failing on a business level. 

The main problem that I made for myself is that in a small pedal business I decided how many pedals max I could build in a week, how much I needed to earn just to pay bills and stop me having to work 9-5 but without charging stupid prices for pedals.
I never took into account dealers and shops wanting to distribute my products, so now with interest from dealers I have to either discount for trade price (not possible on a bottom line price as I would be paying to work). or I raise my RRP price. (not what I want to do).

The other problem that has become apparent, The amount pedals I thought I could make has now dropped by a 1/3 as the more my products become known, the more time I spend answering emails, time going to the post office to ship pedals. time looking after accounts etc.

These are all things that need to be considered before making the step from a hobby to a small business.
BUT, I am still loving what I do (mostly).

[tommycataus]

Every time my non-guitarist friends see my work, they tell me I should go into business. The reason I don't is as discussed above. I have been paid for specific jobs; one such was requested about 12 months ago and it was received last week. I also build many for free, but as gifts etc. I never expect to be paid except through the favour bank, and for that reason the builds are manageable because I can go a week here and there without touching the hobby where necessary. Life gets in the way sometimes, but building pedals and playing guitar is my way of relaxing. I'll be dammed if anyone is going to take that away from me, and if that means giving pedals away that I have built leisurely rather than scrambling to finish commissioned projects, then so be it.

Good on you Nathan, you should do what makes you happy in life. It's not all about the money I can tell you

[DougH]

This is an old story. Like playing music for free for "exposure".