GGG Neutron power wiring???? (Mutron iii)

[brokenstarguitar]

I'm a little confused with the power wiring of the GGG Neutron. I want to wire
it like a typical effect, center negative. I've read
the build notes over and over and its confuing. This is what confuses me
about the charge pump....
"this does make using an external DC power
supply simple, as single voltage AC powered external supplies are very common,
while bipolar ones are not. If you use the charge pump power option, populate
the 7660 and capacitors, and insert the two jumpers leading from the charge pump
circuit at the bottom of the board. If you use a dual battery or DC supply, leave
all of these parts off."

Would I include the charge pump and wire my DC Jack to where the Battery would be?
The normal charge pump I use implicates pin 1 of the charge pump as my Positive in,
which the Neutron layout doesn't use pin 1 at all.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Here's the link to the GGG page if you need more info.
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/effects-projects/filters-envelope/neutron/

[Blitz Krieg]

Look at the schematic?  You can hook up any power supply to it, but it may not fit on the pcb.  Use whatever you want by hacking it onto the board.  What chip do you usually use?

[brokenstarguitar]

The schematic is confusing as well. Looking at it more, if I ran 2 wires from the dc jack positive, one to where the positive battery snap wire goes and one to the right of the "Signal Ground", above "U1", it should power no? I dont want to fry anything here, lol. I use the same 7660S chip the layout calls for. That's why it confuses me that pin 1 isn't used.

[Kipper4]

Here's the data sheet for the 7660s if it helps

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmc7660.pdf

[MrStab]

If you use the charge pump power option, populate
the 7660 and capacitors, and insert the two jumpers leading from the charge pump
circuit at the bottom of the board. If you use a dual battery or DC supply, leave
all of these parts off.

just imagine that last part doesn't exist. as far as i can tell, the expectation is for the vast majority of people to use the charge pump, and the alternative seems to be an afterthought, kinda. the confusion should lie with those who don't want to use it. if that makes sense.

the V+ from the battery (via. the DC jack, or just DC jack if not using one) connects to the board right at Q1, which exists specifically because of the charge pump, ie. negative-ground supply.

what charge pump IC do you usually use? pin 1 on the 7660 isn't used for anything, but pin 1 on the 7660S version (which is used to boost the switching frequency above the audio range) is often just shorted to V+ on pin 8.

[brokenstarguitar]

If you use the charge pump power option, populate
the 7660 and capacitors, and insert the two jumpers leading from the charge pump
circuit at the bottom of the board. If you use a dual battery or DC supply, leave
all of these parts off.

just imagine that last part doesn't exist. as far as i can tell, the expectation is for the vast majority of people to use the charge pump, and the alternative seems to be an afterthought, kinda. the confusion should lie with those who don't want to use it. if that makes sense.

the V+ from the battery (via. the DC jack, or just DC jack if not using one) connects to the board right at Q1, which exists specifically because of the charge pump, ie. negative-ground supply.

what charge pump IC do you usually use? pin 1 on the 7660 isn't used for anything, but pin 1 on the 7660S version (which is used to boost the switching frequency above the audio range) is often just shorted to V+ on pin 8.

Looking closer at the charge mpump I usually use, you're correct. Pin 1 is connected to pin 8. So disregard that comment. I've been trying a few different things with this and I cant get it to power correctly. The LED for the optocoupler doesn't lite up until I switch the "Drive" toggle to the on position. I can notice it phasing when I switch the toggle on and off but just briefly. The controls are working, at least I can hear change. Now what I did do was carefully trace all the GROUND, 9+, and 9- connections and hooked it up like I would a fuzz face but still the same thing. I also remove the transistor thinking it wasn't switching. So I'm doing something majorly wrong here and I can figure it out. Here's a few pictures so you can see exactly what I'm doing.

BTW, my test box connections from top to bottom, RED= 9+ Black= ground BLACK= input RED= output.

[Kipper4]

Are your voltages all ok at the charge pump? And other ic's?
Have you double checked your switch wiring? Lo pass, high pass, band pass?
There's a madbean version called the naughty fish that might be worth looking over too.
Have you tried probing it?
Probably time to post a debugging post too.

[MrStab]

if you heard signal and brief phasing, that says to me you had the power wiring right, and the problem lies elsewhere.

i don't know what voltages to expect on this particular pedal, but maybe you should take readings of all IC & transistor pins so the other guys can detect a fault

[brokenstarguitar]

Are your voltages all ok at the charge pump? And other ic's?
Have you double checked your switch wiring? Lo pass, high pass, band pass?
There's a madbean version called the naughty fish that might be worth looking over too.
Have you tried probing it?
Probably time to post a debugging post too.

I did just notice I had lugs 3 and 6 reversed on the drive switch, I swapped them around but still the same thing. Looking at the Naughty Fish PDF and cross referencing my power connections, they all seem to be where they're suppose to be. I'm so stuck on this. Would it help anyone if I recorded a video and post the link? At this point I really dont know what to do. And should I just start another thread for debugging Kipper?

Here's my voltages....

Power supply, 9.55v

u1
1. 4.0mv
2. 0.3mv
3. 0.3mv
4. -9.40v
5. 2.0mv
6. 1.8mv
7. 0.1mv
8. 9.54v

u2
1. 2.8mv
2. 0.9mv
3. 0
4. -9.39v
5. 0
6. 1.9mv
7. 1.9mv
8. 9.54v

u3
1. -9.39v
2. -0.17v
3. -0.36v
4. -9.39v
5. .01v
6. .01v
7. .23v
8. 9.54v

u4
1. 4.94v
2. 4.77v
3. 0
4. -4.68v
5. -9.39v
6. 0
7. 3.6v
8. 9.54v

[brokenstarguitar]

After more time trying to get this working I noticed under a microscope that the negative of the tant wasn't connected properly so I made sure it was secure and and ii'm still getting  the same thing, nothing. The Gain control, Range toggle, and Mode Rotary switch is working fine or at least I can hear tonal different with them. The Peak control does nothing and this is whats getting me, the Drive toggle turns the led on in the roll-ur-own vactrol, and when I turn it off I can briefly hear the phasing. Here's the new pin voltages with the toggles in the off position (down).



u1
1.-3.7mv
2. 2.7mv
3. -0.1mv
4. -9.39v
5. 1.9mv
6. -9.0mv
7. -0.1mv
8. 9.54v

u2
1. 2.3mv
2. 0.9mv
3. 0
4. -9.39v
5. 0
6. -1.9mv
7. -1.4mv
8. 9.54v

u3
1. -9.40v
2. -0.18v
3. -0.37v
4. -9.39v
5. .01v
6. .01v
7. 0.21v
8. 9.4v

u4
1. 4.95v
2. 4.77v
3. 0
4. -4.68v
5. -9.39
6. 5.49v
7. 3.68v
8. 9.54v

[Kipper4]

Just from a quick look over the ggg schemo

Ic's 1, 2, 3 pins 1 2 3 5 6 7 I think should be at Vb voltage 0v
Pin 8=+9v
Pin 4=-9v

Ic4 the 7660
Pin8 +9v
Pin3 0v VB
Pin8 -9v

[Kipper4]

Here's what I see
IC1b input gain stage inverting.
Assuming the 1M pot goes to zero ohms means the gain of the input will gain would be in the parish of 35.
IC1a IC2a ICb form a state variable filter, note the differant outputs HP LP BP

IC3 looks like a full wave rectifier, but in, when I Start going wrong guys btw.
IC3a lights the led which changes the resistance in the state variable filter.(svf)
Demon effect.
Love mine to bits.