PCB Design for Customers

[rthryhorysak]

I recently had a guy ask me to design a couple pcb layouts for him. I have only ever designed pcbs for myself, so I was wondering what is the going rate for this service. I am decent at it but I would probably charge near the lower end of the spectrum.

[LightSoundGeometry]

ive seen them as low as 3 and as high as 14


mean is probably 6 USD

[lethargytartare]

Search ebay for "guitar pcb" too.

[Groovenut]

I recently had a guy ask me to design a couple pcb layouts for him. I have only ever designed pcbs for myself, so I was wondering what is the going rate for this service. I am decent at it but I would probably charge near the lower end of the spectrum.

For commercial builders, I charge $50 for the first hour and $25 per hour after that.

For DIY guys, if it's something I'm interested in and haven't already made a layout for, usually just the cost of the first run of 3 pcbs. For small boards like pedals it's usually less than $25.

[rthryhorysak]

Alright thank you guys. Appreciate the help.

[R.G.]

Skilled labor under $50/hour isn't skilled labor - it's either advertising or manual labor.

[~arph]

I'd bump that up to $100

[midwayfair]

WTF guys. Do you seriously charge that much money? I've never made more than $25 an hour in my life, usually half that, and that includes being a linguist in intelligence work and science editing, neither of which would ever be described as "manual labor."

[~arph]

There is a big difference in business to business charges and actual employee rate. Yes an employee may make $20 an hour, but the company he is working for charges the client $100 for that hour (at least where I work in IT). Also, when you are a single person company doing PCB design. Could you really live from $25 an hour? (before taxes)

[R.G.]

IMHO, ~arph has it right. There is a difference between non-professional work where you don't do it to make a living, and business transactions.

You are of course free to charge however much or however little for work that requires training and experience. If you charge less than the market rate, you're giving away some portion of the value. If you charge too much, you will have  fewer and fewer clients.  I had to explain this to a friend who is a very, very good amp tech. He is skilled, creative in making fixes, and highly sought after for repairs by many of the music pros in the Austin Texas area. He had stacks and stacks of amps waiting to be fixed, but had to share an apartment with a friend to not be homeless.

I had to convince him that if he has too much work waiting and still can't afford to live, that he either ought to get a job doing something mindless that paid more, or raise his rates. Raising his hourly rate would get him fewer customers, as he was afraid of, but when I showed him the math, and convinced him that all his customers would not go away instantly, only the cheap ones, he saw the light. What's not to love about less work and more money? It's his justified reward for many years of working hard to be skilled and professional about his work. He's doing better financially now, which is important because he really does live on what he makes as a tech.

Don't get me wrong - if you just like doing layouts and want to do them on the cheap, go for it. But do it realizing that you're giving away some portion of your time for free. That may be OK for you, even remembering how many (unpaid!!) hours you put into learning how to run traces, modify components, and do a decent floor plan for the board. Or you may be wanting to do a friend a favor - in cases like that, I've just done layouts for free; it's a gift. Or you may want to establish a name for yourself; in that case it's advertising. But if you're doing contract work for hire, your work is your product. What do you think your work is worth?

[vigilante397]

WTF guys. Do you seriously charge that much money? I've never made more than $25 an hour in my life, usually half that, and that includes being a linguist in intelligence work and science editing, neither of which would ever be described as "manual labor."

I agree to an extent, but I've worked as a translator and got paid the equivalent of $10USD an hour while the company was charging clients $40USD an hour for my work, while on the other hand, I've done freelance stuff that I've charged $70 an hour for. Working for a company versus freelance/owning a company makes a big difference.

[Electron Tornado]

Working for a company versus freelance/owning a company makes a big difference.

Yes. People seem to forget that working for a company involves a salary AND some level of benefits. All of that should be considered as your "total compensation" for your work.

I once met an engineer who had been working for a major aircraft manufacturer until being laid off. He then turned right around and went to work for that same company as a contract engineer while charging them 4x what he had been paid by them before.

[R.G.]

That's pretty common. Companies have been moving from the post-WWII model of paying people extra to stay with the company toward paying extra so they can cut them off in an instant. Short term contract work gets the companies "freedom from employees", which they think is worth paying more for.

It's a little funny - this is one of those unintended consequences of employment security law. If you force companies to pay extra to get rid of employees by making it hard to get rid of employees you think you don't need, the companies respond by not hiring, and by paying extra for the workers not being "employees" under the meaning of the law. Then you get the oddity of the stock market. It used to be that the larger the number of employees, the more highly the company was regarded and the (subtly) more the stock was worth. This inverted in the 1990s, and companies saw their stock go UP when they announced layoffs. Layoffs once meant that the company was doing badly and its business and net worth was going down. The inversion meant that the company was getting more efficient, more "lean and mean". Neither of these meant what the facile description says, of course.

Ultimately, all businesses want piece-work labor, paying only for what they need **today** with no longstanding commitment. They will pay extra to keep workers on longer than today's needs only where they think it will cost them more to hire what they need - or NOT be able to hire what they need - on the spot when some new opportunity comes along.  How well "hire piece labor" works versus "keep a staff" depends on the ability of the bosses to guess what the business needs to make money in the swamp of the momentary business world.  And of course, what the government has decided is right and correct at the moment. We all know how very good governments are at that, right?  An organization that wants only power and control tells economic entities how to act depending on the political mess of the moment, and d@mn the side effects, full speed ahead.     

[Bill Mountain]

I'm shit at PCB design work so I usually pay someone to do custom work for me.  It usually costs me about 40-50 dollars plus the cost of PCB's.  My designs are usually pretty basic though.

[midwayfair]

Could you really live from $25 an hour? (before taxes)

This is pretty much the median for independent contractor science editing. After taxes it is approximately what I was paid by a company to do it (and about what I make now as a paralegal). So, to answer your question, yes. Apparently there are just professions that think highly enough of themselves that their "skilled" labor using a computer program that costs a couple hundred dollars and years of training is better than my skilled labor using a computer program that costs a couple hundred dollars and years of training. There is literally nothing in my life I will ever do that I could charge $50 an hour for and not get laughed at.

But I'm totally not bitter ...

OP: I happen to charge $25 an hour, which has been good enough for the few people I've done it for. Just to hammer home the point.

EDIT:

Forgot to say ...

I agree to an extent, but I've worked as a translator and got paid the equivalent of $10USD an hour while the company was charging clients $40USD an hour for my work, while on the other hand, I've done freelance stuff that I've charged $70 an hour for. Working for a company versus freelance/owning a company makes a big difference.

Thank you making me not feel like a total outlier. 

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Personal opinion alert....

I have to agree with Jon.

If I am going to pay you $50+ per hour... I expect RESULTS. If the PCB isn't the color I like... fix it at your cost. If there is an error... fix it at your cost. If the timeline is not satisfactory... fix it or change the cost.

If you want to tout "business" prices, then you have to deal in a business mentality. Period.

However, if you are willing to work on price and/or be reasonable, then overlooking errors or time slides are a lot more acceptable.

You can charge whatever you like but, be prepared to deliver that level of service to the customer.

My 2... 

[Groovenut]

Personal opinion alert....

I have to agree with Jon.

If I am going to pay you $50+ per hour... I expect RESULTS. If the PCB isn't the color I like... fix it at your cost. If there is an error... fix it at your cost. If the timeline is not satisfactory... fix it or change the cost.

If you want to tout "business" prices, then you have to deal in a business mentality. Period.

However, if you are willing to work on price and/or be reasonable, then overlooking errors or time slides are a lot more acceptable.

You can charge whatever you like but, be prepared to deliver that level of service to the customer.

My 2... 

Why would you expect anything less?

Not being facetious. If you are paying for a service, regardless of the cost, you should get what the service promises.

[R.G.]

If I am going to pay you $50+ per hour... I expect RESULTS. If the PCB isn't the color I like... fix it at your cost. If there is an error... fix it at your cost. If the timeline is not satisfactory... fix it or change the cost.
...
You can charge whatever you like but, be prepared to deliver that level of service to the customer.

There are several levels of contract services: fixed price for results, cost plus fixed fee, time and materials, etc., and all of that ought to be specified ahead of time. The service should be spelled out ahead of time (as should the results expected!). Then it should be followed to the letter.

No professional would ever expect to deliver less than the contracted results or services.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

If I am going to pay you $50+ per hour... I expect RESULTS. If the PCB isn't the color I like... fix it at your cost. If there is an error... fix it at your cost. If the timeline is not satisfactory... fix it or change the cost.
...
You can charge whatever you like but, be prepared to deliver that level of service to the customer.

There are several levels of contract services: fixed price for results, cost plus fixed fee, time and materials, etc., and all of that ought to be specified ahead of time. The service should be spelled out ahead of time (as should the results expected!). Then it should be followed to the letter.

No professional would ever expect to deliver less than the contracted results or services.

I agree however, you have thrown a lot of words around like contract, services, and professional. I am skeptical that the OP is looking to start an empire.

My thoughts were based on this. If you want to charge big boy prices then be prepared to deal with and accept big boy concerns and responsibilities.

[R.G.]

I agree however, you have thrown a lot of words around like contract, services, and professional. I am skeptical that the OP is looking to start an empire.

My thoughts were based on this. If you want to charge big boy prices then be prepared to deal with and accept big boy concerns and responsibilities.

Where I used to work, we'd say that the two of us are in violent agreement.   

I have a simple view, much like athletics; if you accept money for it, you're a professional.