Any way to make a rangemaster louder?

[strassercaster]

hello i have a red rooster i love it . I just wish it was about 20-30 pecent loader. i used a 100hfe transistor. i am going to try using a 20k pot for the boost. has anyone succesfully gotten a lot  more boost out of a rangemaster type circuit? i dont want to ruin the tone and feel of it either. Any suggestions. Thank you

[nickbungus]

Hi, are you looking to get more 'Treble Boost', or more volume (keeping the tone as is)?

[antonis]

Your Fuzz has a voltage divider base biasing so - more or less - is "independable" from transistor's hfe..

With a rough calculation, your base current is 18μA and your Ie is 1.4mA, so your Re is about 14R and your max gain is about 700..

Better use a 15k pot to raise your desired level max voltage gain to 1000..
(which results in a 5% raise in db term..)

[mac]

Try 18v, and some tweaking or hotter transistor to make it distort in the same way it does at 9v when you hit strings hard.

mac

[Mark Hammer]

Um, the traditional way to make a Rangemaster louder is called an "amplifier".

But seriously, it is intended to be a treble booster, not a volume booster or overdrive.  It will do those things, but not by intention or design.  If you want more, you would be opting for a different design.

I'm as much a victim of the B.U.M. syndrome (Blind Urge to Mod) here as anyone, but sometimes you gotta leave things the way they are and accept their limitations.

[nickbungus]

I've seen people use 2 treble boosters in series. 

[strassercaster]

well thank you all for the responses. its not me that wants it louder.I am very happy with this circuit. sure a touch louder a little more gain would be nice. i have a friend that requested it. i did explain that it is what it is. i did suggest buying two . i think the main issue is he is using it first directly out of the guitar. thats how i use mine as well it does a little of the impedance with the guitar volume knob clean up as well. i think his problem is he uses it mostly for wah wah enhancement. then it goes into a couple of tube screamer style circuits. i have used two my self one first and one midway after my gain pedals. i believe part of the lack of boost he is wanting is partly do to the fact he is running 1-2 gain pedals similtaniously. i think the  diodes forward voltage on the tube screamers are stepping on the  boost. i just wanted to make sure that what i told him was right. thank you all you have helped me a great deal. i told him to make any major changes would change the tone of it and that he should prbably have two. when i run my gain pedals before the rangemaster it really boosts probably 20-30 percent louder than vice versa.

i am using a slighly modded version of the red rooster. i make the input blend  caps smaller.

thanks if some one does know a way i would appreciate it but i realize if i add a jfet  or silicon transistor that tone that we love will be altered and gone. i actually set the first one (red rooster ) as a very mild overdrive in full boost and the second one a java boost on the  treble setting   as a lead booster. Thank you all for the time, wisdom,knowledge and concern . I love building pedal working on my 56th build in 11 months. 33 different circuits. its funny my first build was  a red rooster and it  is still my favorite ha ha.

[Gus]

Try a different bias. 
What is you collector voltage?
if it is 7VDC drop it to 5VDC and try it again

Gain goes up in a circuit like this when the collector voltage is closer to ground

[strassercaster]

Well I tried using the 20k log pot.
It gets
Louder but noisier and more distorted .i kind of like it . As
Mentioned maybe a 15k would be perfect. I haven't seen any in tayda I'll have to look around for some. I think a 20k linear would be great. I will try the lower bias at the collector as well. I was pleasantly surprised . It makes it into a medium overdrive with unwanted hiss/noise but at about 13-16 it's manageable and louder . Thank you

[Ben Lyman]

Well I tried using the 20k log pot... As Mentioned maybe a 15k would be perfect. I haven't seen any in tayda...

I'm not 100% sure but I think you can put a resistor of something around 68k from lug 1 to lug 3 of your 20k pot, this should make two resistors in parallel and equal about 15k.
I know there is some way to change a pot to a lower resistance by doing something like that, although it may change the sweep a bit or maybe just the feel of the sweep.

[antonis]

Just what Ben said..

Putting a 68k resistor in parallel with pot's total resistance you will get a non-linear (anymore) pot of 15k..
(IMHO non-linerity shouldn't be a problem in such a gain pot..)

You may also put a 4k7 - 5k1 resistor in series with the excisting 10k pot (between pot and collector) but you'll result in a raise of minimum gain..

[midwayfair]

There's another way: More gain is not more volume -- more voltage is more output. Increasing the gain without increasing the output will just bring the noise floor up. Double the voltage and it's twice as loud.

[Philippe]

Um, the traditional way to make a Rangemaster louder is called an "amplifier".

(1) set the RM knob at 2 o'clock+ and crank the amp...channel your inner Rory Gallagher.

[boogietone]

I would put a LPB or similar circuit after it.

[GibsonGM]

I would put a LPB or similar circuit after it.

A MOSFET boost after it would make it variable from whisper to destroy your amp....you could even add it internally to the pedal, find the sweet spot for the RM (best tone, up enough to avoid hiss, low enough to not overdrive the boost), and make only the MOSFET variable ("volume"). 

[midwayfair]

A rangemaster already boosts to the maximum available by the power supply minus a few decibels for the 7v bias. Putting another 9v booster after it doesn't change anything except that now you get to clip the boost and lose the treble boosting part.

The only way you get a louder treble booster is if you have more voltage to use. Every other method besides 'turn your amp up' pretty much just says to me that building a different booster is the right call.

[idy]

Important take-away: A rangemaster goes about as far as you can on 9v. As do a lot of 1 transistor circuits. If you want hotter you need a whole chain of pedals that can take over 9v, or a higher (18 or over) voltage booster at the end. Very common, a booster right after the guitar, then what ever dirt/filter/wah, then deverb/delay modulation, then a booster at the end if you want more signal than those (digital? BB?) pedals can handle. Hitting any kind of "clipper" like a tube screamer harder will not make it louder, just squishier. Unless it runs on higher voltage and has higher voltage cllipping elements.

[darron]

just wanted to chip in:

changing the 10K pot to a 20K pot for the boost will throw the bias out. the 10K resistance of the pot is also used to bias the transistor.

it will work with 20k, even maybe 47k, but it starts getting dirty and looses headroom.

edit: okay, now i've read it all. i use a germanium PNP btw when i make this style circuit, HFE around 150 for more oomph. and then i have a 500k trim pot to replace the two bias resistors to really dial it in where i want to.

[LightSoundGeometry]

where were all you guys when i needed help with my RM

[GibsonGM]

A rangemaster already boosts to the maximum available by the power supply minus a few decibels for the 7v bias. Putting another 9v booster after it doesn't change anything except that now you get to clip the boost and lose the treble boosting part.

The only way you get a louder treble booster is if you have more voltage to use. Every other method besides 'turn your amp up' pretty much just says to me that building a different booster is the right call.

Did not know that, you learn something new every day   18V or another boost, sure.
I've never made a RM, I like the mosfet "sound".  Any more gain would destroy my amp (har har)