Cornish TB-83 Treble Booster?

[nickbungus]

I'm thinking...... FIGHT!!!

Greg Fryer vs Pete Cornish

[sopapo]

Thank you very much Nick, a hell of a good work!!
I am gonna build it with a pot too, the 10k pot on r11 is a safe bet, but a 50 k pot instead of r10,  I think is too a usual way to put a ot on a treble booster, at least its done this way by many makers...

[sopapo]

So, in your opinion, Nick, how you compare the three principal "may" boosters, the fryer, covington, and cornish? If you d be hard pressed to choose one, which one would be??

[nickbungus]

I would discount the Covington as its just a TB-83 clone with some misguided antipop resistors.

I keep meaning to make a super boost that has a rotary switch that swaps between the Fryer and the Cornish. I'd probably add a switch to swap between the BC182 and BC549c too.  I think I read somewhere the the Fryer Touring (or was it the Delux) was meant to be a TB-83 work alike.

I think for most of the 70s BM used a Rangemaster, so I would add that to the list.  And the Rangemaster does sound noticeably different to my ears.

I think my favourite period of Brian Mays tone is the early 80s (albeit their music declined around that period) when he was using a TB83 and also a Boss CE-1 chorus.  The CE-1 has this weird preamp/boost section and I've found his tone to be more saturated/distorted around this period. 

 

[sopapo]

Hello Nick, very interesting the switching between the two boosters...other thing that it would be great to swicht is the input cap, I dont know if the 10n cap its too much bass, the fryer have a 6n8..

[maynut]

Hi Nick,

I'd emailed Pete Cornish himself while on the hunt for details about the TB-83, and asked about the switch over between Rangemaster and TB-83, here are his words:

I still have my notebook with circuit designs from 1971 to 1975 and the Treble Boost I designed for Queen was done between 1972 and 1974 although the exact date was not recorded.

I did not make the TB-83 Extra until later in the '70s but BM was definitely using the Extra in 1981 but always in conjunction with a permanently in line TB-83, with the TB-83 Extra added for solos.
The TB-83 Extra has identical circuitry to the TB-83 but has the addition of an Output Volume Control and Bypass switch.
I would suggest that a TB-83 plus a TB-83 Extra will give you the result you are looking for.

So looks like the TB-83 was 72-74 sometime.  By the way the result I was looking for was the Bohemian Rhapsody solo.

Hope this helps somewhat with dates...

[nickbungus]

I think you need to build a deacy amp then as well.

I know the deacy was often used in conjunction with a c-ocked wah.

Also, I own one of those Digitech Brian May things and the manual says this about the BoRhap solo setting:

Based on the vocal-like and sustaining guitar tone from the first solo. The Red Special (with neck and middle pickups turned on and out of phase) is plugged into a treble booster and a VoxTM AC30.

But heres friend who said he recorded it using the Deacy Mode on the Digitech

https://www.facebook.com/josef.camilleri.54/videos/10156455137713520/?__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&eid=ARBMgfNM9ywWfdLEb4AMhlHpfXzMTzD56mu2xJ3gB-6qROoQQAjw0gfXkmsj5rfERn2WpA7FAsq6eiCs&hc_ref=ARR7uC_1AvTGvQ51X83gwEjJ6wGhfaNjWigWadlKOpxJgaTswWdnijC2gLoxmZV3emo&fref=nf

Deacy or AC30???

[maynut]

Aaarggh who knows?! So many builds so little time haha!  Yes this certainly sounds pretty authentic and I have heard before someone else saying it was the Deacy. I obviously have no option but to build the ac30 and the Deacy to be sure haha

[maynut]

Deacy or AC30? FIGHT!!!!!! 

[garcho]

just throwing this out there:

how can you replicate his tone without considering the signal path on their recordings? think how much money people throw at a Neve channel strip, it ain't because it's perfectly transparent. calrec/sst/etc. channel compressors, eq etc., not to mention the mastering process. how do you listen to his music? the radio compresses the hell out of everything, CDs are obviously hi-fi (enough not to have to argue the point) but is your amp? your speakers? LPs have their own filtering, not mention cassettes. i don't see how you could ever get a clear picture of his "tone" without considering these elements. maybe i'm missing the point...

[maynut]

Hi Garcho,

Yep spot on, I agree 100%.  If we're taking Bohemian Rhapsody solo as an example (and I was using this as an example to Mr Cornish to narrow down treble booster configurations), I've also heard the sound was partly achieved by multi-miking and deliberately inducing phase cancellations.
No, this actual tone is never going to be available to me. I'm not going to buy a Neve or record everything in the same way, in the same room, through the same mics and components (nice if I could...)

I don't think you're missing the point really, you're right, those things shape the sound we eventually hear at home enormously.  I don't know about the others on here, but I'm just looking for a similar tone to come out of the amp speaker.  So, using a BM guitar, sixpence and picking technique, Cornish treble booster and an AC30 it won't be far off.
The 'Brian May tone' to me is these elements alone, instantly recognisable.  Any parts of the signal between my fingers and the speaker that I can get right, I'll try for that at least.

[garcho]

hope i didn't come off prickish and condescending, just an engineer so i guess i'm a little over eager to stand up for my compadres also, i've read a lot of posts here that go like this "i built ____ because i really love _____'s tone but it doesn't sound right." Then by the end of the thread, it's usually something like "guess I'll give up".

i like your attitude, especially about the pick, such an overlooked part of the chain. and i meant to say before wow, congrats on communicating with Mr Cornish, what a brilliant and obscurely obvious thing to do, and he rewarded you with useful information even, bravo!

[maynut]

Not at all! No worries!
Yes it's easy for people to get bogged down in trying too hard to do the impossible and not appreciating the bits they can do.
Nick has done well also getting the schematic down and he has built some of the phasers etc I believe to get the other missing bits of his tone.
I'm currently playing through a small Orange practice amp, and I'm happy with it for now.  Even that sounds a bit Brian May-ish on the right settings.

But one day I shall build the normal channel of an AC30 because I think that's something I can realistically afford and be able to do.
Ps, Pete Cornish is surprisingly easy to get hold of! 

[maynut]

Saying this, I have found the schematic for the 1073 online...
Tempting...

[garcho]

Saying this, I have found the schematic for the 1073 online...
Tempting...

ha!

there's this:

http://www.gyraf.dk/gy_pd/ssl/ssl.htm

[maynut]

Ok looks like I'm going to be busy haha

[maynut]

Nick, you probably know this by now, but the super booster you were talking about that would switch between the Cornish and the Fryer, apparently is now available - they beat you to it I'm afraid! BM guitars now sells one that switches between 70s 80s and 90s sound, presumably translating as rangemaster, Cornish and Fryer!

[maynut]

Link:
http://shop.brianmayguitars.co.uk/bmg-accessories/bmg-tb-classic.html

[nickbungus]

Its not a problem, was never meant to be a commercial thing anyway.  Thanks for the link though

[maynut]

No worries!  Could still be fun to try and do your own custom one anyway