Please examine & critique my first attempt at vero layout

[Dito]

Hi gang.

This is the schematic I followed to build my first (and only) pedal. It had a full tutorial for building it on perf board, all the way down to "twist leads X and Y together and solder".



Since so many of the other pedal projects I see are done on stripboard (Veroboard), I thought I'd try my hand at laying it out. I left out the off-board stuff like pots and ground connections, with the exception of the LED.Here's what I came up with:



I realize the vero isn't as compact as it could/should be, but I was trying to keep things clear for myself. I'm sure there's some insane way to compress it all down into a postage-stamp size, but at this point, I'll be happy if folks say I got it right.

Thanks in advance (again) for helping the newbie.


-Dito

[Kipper4]

you are going to need to make a cut under C1 and C2.
C3's cathode should go to gnd. it is not.
R5 needs to go to +9v rail. Its floating somewhere in vero intergalactic space
you do not specify the transistor so its hard to check if the pinout is correct.
other than that keep going bud.
Yer you can save some space. it wil come with time and confidence. My first perfboard treble booster wouldn't have fitted in a 1590B and it mimicked the schematic to the letter.
I looked back on it 6 months later and laughed.
Congratulations
Rich

[lethargytartare]

- Schem has 9v going THROUGH R2 before reaching R1.  In your layout you have a jumper letting the 9v get directly to R1. 
- Layout has 9v going through C3 before it gets to R5 but the schem has 9v connecting directly to R5 (and as Kipper4 noted, the cathode of C3 should connect to ground, but in your layout it never reaches ground).  R1 should tie directly to
- Schem has R1 connecting diretly to C2, layout has R1 only reaching C2 by going through R2 (and as Kipper4 noted, you need cuts under C1 and C2 when you orient them like that on vero)
- your volume pot wire is tied directly to ground, so your layout wouldn't make any sound.  Looking at your vero, you'd probably want the volume wire to be on the same strip as the "tops" of your two diodes (5 strips up).  And offboard, that wire would to to one lug (so you could label it "volume 1"), the wiper would be your signal out, and the third lug would go to ground -- so you could have another wire on your vero, tied to the ground strip, for "volume 3)

I like to trace the offboard points through to recheck my layout, and that can help sort out some of the places where a lot of things are meeting and branching off.

Cheers!
ltt

[Dito]

Argh. I see all the errors now. I'll rework and repost. Is that the "preferred" way to orient C1 and C2, or should I have then vertical instead?

I think I mis-Vero'ed the diodes because I don't fully understand how they function in this kind of circuit. I'll keep reading (and keep asking for help).

Thanks for the error checking. I'll repost with fixes if you don't mind checking again.

[Kipper4]

if you put the cuts under the C1 and C2 and keep them like that (orientation) then change the Alpha setting so as to make them more transparant then we will see the cuts below them, as im sure you will have seen this before.
Anyway you want to put them left to right, up to down its up to you.
No problems rechecking this. Its big veros i struggle with. I'm not a vero fan. personal choice.....

[Dito]

Okay, here it is, reworked. I tried to implement all the corrections & suggestions. I don't know if I made anything better or worse by showing the pots. The lugs are labeled as per the tutorial - I think they're correct. I know they're wired correctly, because the thing works.    I just want to see it in the format I'm used to seeing here and on other sites.



I don't have the nifty 1/4" input & output jack symbols. Somebody had them shown, both mono and stereo. In physical reality, I've got a sort-of messy "common ground" on one of the jack lugs.

I also don't know how to make the cool red squares other people use for cut holes. I tried drawing a square, but it wanted to snap the corners into the veroboard holes. I figured you guys would get the point until I figured that part out.

Thanks again for the re-checking.

[Kipper4]

R1 goes from collector to base. Not +9v to base.
C2 is wrong it should go from collector to D1 cathode (-) as it is you have the output cap c2 going to ground.
because C2 output is going to ground your level pot wont work too.


If you look in the connectivity tab in diylc you will find the sqaure trace cut symbol.

on the gain pot you can use a single wire from output to lug 3
and another single wire from Gnd to lug2 then a short wire bridging lugs 1 and 2.
for clarity is all.

[Dito]

I knew rotating those caps and adding the pots was just going to complicate things... argh.

I'll keep practicing as long as you guys are willing to keep helping!

[Kipper4]

just turn C2 horizontal again and attach the end you had at Gnd to the cathode of D1 (white band end)  put a trace cut underneath it (c2) and you should be nearly there unless i've missed something.
Apart form the R1 issue of course

[Ben Lyman]

on the volume pot you have 1&3 going to ground. just move 3(I think) up to the other side of those diodes where they meet the output cap

[Kipper4]

Here's some help with how the diodes create distortion


http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/how-to-build-it/technical-help/articles/design-distortion/

Lots of other usefull other stuff too.
Hope it helps
Rich

[Dito]

Let's try once more.



I've read that standing resistors on end like I did with R1 is "discouraged", but I couldn't see an easier way.

I'll go read up on diodes and other technical things. In the mean time, I hope I'm not making anyone crazy/crazier.


-Dito

[Kipper4]

Boom
I think you've got it.
Now how do they make em so small.
Eg move R1 to the left of C1. Think of it as the electrons don't care where the nodes join.
Bunch some other stuff up closer.?
I normally try to use a 4 hole space for resistors but then I work with perf, this is not always that simple with vero.
Have fun with it. At least you have your first layout to try.

[Dito]

Boom
I think you've got it.
Now how do they make em so small.
Eg move R1 to the left of C1. Think of it as the electrons don't care where the nodes join.
Bunch some other stuff up closer.?

Thanks for all your help. I know the components can be placed right next to each other - I kept the spaces in while working so I could keep track easier. I'm not super-great at reading schematics either, but I'm trying. That explains why my physical vero layout so closely matches the schematic.

But I'm an old dog (mid-40s!) who's trying to learn new tricks. That's never easy.

[Kipper4]

But I'm an old dog (mid-40s!) who's trying to learn new tricks. That's never easy.

Snap same here, but I'm even older than you.

[Dito]

Snap same here, but I'm even older than you.

But as of this writing, you have 3,110 posts. I have... um... a lot fewer. :-)

I never did find a vero "break" square in DIYLC. All it seems to have is a break line - although the icon is the red square. It says <No Templates> in the drop-down menu.

I'm a former CAD/drafting guy, so that program appeals to me. I give full props for the components being accurate in size. Very cool.

[duck_arse]

I'm late, and older. everyone here says they hate reading vero, how'd you get so many responses?

hairpinning, I'm told it's called. I moved away from it too, one way is to lay your resistor flat E-W, cut the track under the resistor body, then link the W end to the track below it. if that makes sense.

and, please, go and read the secret life of pots at geofex. NOW is the time to learn and use "cw, ccw" and c or wiper for the pot connections, as they then can't be confused.

if you get the line instead of the box and dot, right click and un-select 'between tracks' or whatever that option is. then there is a check-box on the right in that dialogue that sets your choice as default. and try right clicking all the parts, believe me, it is vrr easy to make the sizes all very wrong. and the colours!

[Kipper4]

if you get the line instead of the box and dot, right click and un-select 'between tracks'

Thanks for the tip DA Mine was doing the line thing too. MY EYES

Sorted the trace cut now saved as template.


As a side note I have resized most of my common or garden componants

resistors, diodes small caps

Width = 0.125"
length =0.25"
Pin Spacings 0.1"
for resistors i chose colour code; NONE

polarised caps
Diam 0.25"
Pin spacing 0.1"
Height 0.4"

Pots
Diam 19mm
Spacing 0.2"
Lug size 0.1"

Small caps
length 0.25"
width 0.125"
pin spacing 0.1"

Change Transistors pin spacing to 0.1"

Once you have done this to save as template

unselect the componant
Right click on it and at the bottom of the pull down you choose
Save as template.
Name appropriatly

Hope this helps some
Rich

[Dito]

I'm late, and older. everyone here says they hate reading vero, how'd you get so many responses?

I dunno how I got so many responses. I was just chalking it up to cool people around here.

If there's hatred for vero, then how come I see so many layouts using it? It's confusing for me, at least now, because I used to draw piping schematics for a living. Everything had to be straight, but N/S and E/W were both perfectly legal. The E/W nature of vero is a bit of a mind-bender, but it's starting to make sense.

What's the other common choice? Perf board? Well, there's etching... I've heard it's not as hard as one might think, but still pretty advanced.

and, please, go and read the secret life of pots at geofex. NOW is the time to learn and use "cw, ccw" and c or wiper for the pot connections, as they then can't be confused.

I skimmed enough to confirm my guess that CW means "clockwise" and CCW means "counter-clockwise". (I'll read the hardcore math later.)

That makes perfect sense to me. How come using that terminology isn't more common? It seems easier to remember which is which than 1, 2, and 3.

Thanks for the additional help. I'm trying to cram a whole lot of information into my foggy brain, and it's not easy.

[Kipper4]

No rush to take all this in.

If my miniscule brain cant take anymore (like proofing one of Duck Arses boards. My eyes canny take any moor Jim. I'll get it done soon DA)

I Copy and paste the hints and tips to a document and print. Start a tips books of your own for the bench.
The most important thing is the fun of it. The reward is a working effect and a happy oldish man.


The reason I'm not a vero fan is of the few Ive made every single one has had to be debugged where as I have more sucess with Pad per hole perfboard. Go with what feels right.