Wave soldering using a solder pot

[gtudoran]

A small review and tutorial on wave soldering using a solder pot. The actual soldering action for wires starts at minute 5 and for the pcb at minute 7. But i would recommend you to look at the whole video if you are interested in this technique.
Any comments are highly appreciated as always.

WARNING! POTENTIAL INJURY MIGHT OCCUR! MELTED SOLDER WILL BURN YOUR SKIN / CLOTH / EYES / ETC. IF IT GETS IN CONTACT WITH IT! PLEASE BE CAREFUL, THIS METHOD IS NOT SUITABLE FOR BEGINNERS! ALWAYS USE PROTECTION EQUIPMENT, AT LEAST A PAIR OF GLASSES!

Regards,
DeX

[amptramp]

1. This is an incredibly dangerous piece of equipment to have on your workbench!  Are you so certain that you are not a klutz that you would never get a finger in solder or drop something in it that would splash solder around?  How many fingers do you need to play the guitar?  I occasionally get burns from my soldering iron.  I don't need a hazard like this.

2. Note that the solder skins over quite a bit and he has to keep clearing the dross off the surface.  This means some of the solder is wasted by keeping it continuously hot.

3. Also he did not have any leads going elsewhere on the board he tried, so if you are doing a tube screamer board and you need to keep the holes open where the pot leads go, his method can't do that.

4. Components have both ends soldered at once meaning a lot of heat reaches the components.  If you solder one end of a diode at a time it has a much better survival prospect than doing both at a time, especially if it is germanium.

[Kipper4]

I'm with Amptramp.
That would be a nightmare on my bench. I'd likely step on the wire and solder my gonads to my jeans.
Yep Self confessed klutz.
It also looks like the kind of lead solder used for roofing and not the blended tin/lead mix I usually use for pcb work.
Where that the case I'd have my doubts about its longevity.
Count me out.........

[J0K3RX]

Well, there you have it.... I guess it's Fondue time 

[armdnrdy]

Actually....this method would take away all of the fun for me!

My favorite part of building is populating the board and soldering the components.

(least favorite....off board wiring)

This pot is best used at the top of a fortress parapet walk....to drop molten lead on your advancing enemies!   

[R.G.]

Two issues here:

1. This is incredibly dangerous.

2. See #1.

It's a lot like a large, healthy adult rattlesnake coiled up and resting on your workbench. The quieter it is and the more accustomed you are to it being there, the more likely you are to get bitten; and there are long lasting repercussions to being bitten, including disfigurement and possibly death.

People who have never worked with molten metal have no idea how dangerous any significant amount of it is. People can and have been blinded by specks of molten solder flying off hand-soldering jobs. Imagine resting your hand on the pot accidentally. Or spilling the pot into your shoe. Or your lap.

[MrStab]

my big, dumb feet would almost definitely trip over the power cord. being turned to steel in a magnetic field would be cool. being turned to tin in a solder bin would not.

[armdnrdy]

This is a picture of the last time I tried to use a solder pot!

[CodeMonk]

I gotta go along with what RG and amptramp said.
Particularly amptramp #2.
Molten solder will begin to skin over pretty much instantly after you clear the crap off.
Commercial Wave solder machines usually have something called "Dross Retardant" in with the molten solder (It looks kinda like ~60 weight gear oil).
I basically allows you to gather up the crap, and get rid of it.

And on what RG said...
I ran wave solder machines in a manufacturing environment for years.
That shit is dangerous!!!
Once while adjusting the machine, wave height in this case, the damn screw to adjust was deep under the solder.
I dropped the screw driver, but instinctively jumped back.
Some dross retardant still got on my hand.
After 3 trips to the boss's office for burn cream. she sent me to the occupational ER.
They gooped my hand, wrapped it up, gave me a bottle of vicodin (this was in the 80's when they still stocked drugs at those places), and I went to the bar.
Best night of work I ever had.
If it got on my face, it may have been a very different story.

If you are going to continue to do this, I would suggest, securing the solder pot on a secure table (as in secured to a wall or the floor) somewhere else other than your normal work bench.


Also, you are "shocking" the board.
Regular wave solder machines have a pre-heating section. to bring the board and soldering surfaces up to temp (To around 400F or so).

[PRR]

This is incredibly dangerous.

And quite unnecessary in DIY.

[R.G.]

It gets worse. I watched the actual PCB section of the film. Couldn't help it - it's like trying to look away from a train wreck.   

I have seen solder pots used in production, back in the Dark Ages, and the folks who did that wore protective gear, face shields and gloves, and used tongs with detents for the PCB to rest in to do the actual dipping.  The guy actually held the victim PCB by a component and dipped it into the pot.

AAGGGGGGHHH!

Fried PCBs and fried fingers aside, molten metals contains so much heat that if by accident a droplet of water hits the melt, the water flashes into steam ... explosively ... flinging droplets of still-molten metal everywhere. I hope this guy never uses the pot when he's sweating, or when there is a hidden droplet of water on the PCB he dips.

The exploding-water nature of this stuff means you aren't safe in the same room without protective gear.

[blackieNYC]

[CodeMonk]

It gets worse. I watched the actual PCB section of the film. Couldn't help it - it's like trying to look away from a train wreck.   

I have seen solder pots used in production, back in the Dark Ages, and the folks who did that wore protective gear, face shields and gloves, and used tongs with detents for the PCB to rest in to do the actual dipping.  The guy actually held the victim PCB by a component and dipped it into the pot.

AAGGGGGGHHH!

Fried PCBs and fried fingers aside, molten metals contains so much heat that if by accident a droplet of water hits the melt, the water flashes into steam ... explosively ... flinging droplets of still-molten metal everywhere. I hope this guy never uses the pot when he's sweating, or when there is a hidden droplet of water on the PCB he dips.

The exploding-water nature of this stuff means you aren't safe in the same room without protective gear.

The "Dark Ages" for me was back in the 80's.
And I can only recall having to use a solder pot once.
We got a bunch of SMD IC's that had some nasty corroded leads.
We had to use some really acidic flux, and then dip them in the solder pot to tin them, since just putting them on the board as they were was a PITA and probably not all that reliable (not a good feature for something like a space probe).
And yeah, we had to wear a smock, face protection and gloves. And we didn't hold them in our fingers.

Might have use a solder pot to tin a bunch of wires at one time.

But yeah, holding it by a part?
Thats just uhm...well, you said it all.

[gtudoran]

Waww... now this is a popular topic . Thank you guys for all your feedback and i will try to answer the best as i can on your comments. Again thank your for all your feedback and share of experience.
First i would like to say that yes it's dangerous... but working with 500V in an amp it's not?... True, when you make a mistake @ 500V you die in an instant, with melted solder you still have a chance

@amptramp
1. now i'm not a klutz i'm quite sure of that. I do get burns from soldering iron too ... but in 15 years since i've started to play with soldering irons didn't stop me from using them
2. the melted solder surface is getting dirty from all the flux / dirt on the wires and oxidation, remember if you let a drop of solder on your solder tip for a long time... what is going to happen? It will oxidize and leave small amounts of slug that you are going to remove with a sponge right?
3. i knew this question was going to arise somewhere on the road and that is why (i didn't film it but the result is there) - minute 10:37 - you will see 3 wires that were soldered with the same method - forgot about wires, went pack and freed the pads with solder pump, put them in and ... the result you can see it in the picture.
4. how do you think they solder the boards in an industrial environment? Point by point? No ... they are soldered at the same time in a bigger vat of solder (wave soldering) - i've made a small mistake and called wave - it's more of a dip / drag method.
5. germanium components are damaged even from the heat of your soldering iron, that is why i'm using sockets (and i don't think that i'm the only one) - also the time that the heat is applied from a single move it's much shorter then the heat that is applied in ptp operation.

@Kipper4 - as you can see the bench that i'm using for this it's quite far way from my "all work" bench and i like to call it the mechanical corner. The table it's covered by a thick sheet of metal (2mm thick aluminium) so in case of a spill because of it's thermal properties it will dissipate the heat quite fast (imagine it as a big ass heat-sink). The table is steady as hell, as you can see i have a drill press on it (30kg).
Also the solder that i'm using it's 60 / 40 (or 63 / 37 to be exact). Never liked lead-free solder and as long as can i'm going to use Pb solder (a lot of discussions about this and why lead-free solder it's quite bad). The solder that was used was flux free because there was no needed.

@J0K3RX - never had fondue ... damn i will have to try it!

@armdnrdy quite true but i kinda got bored of individual tinning of the wires ... and i do tin a lot of them

@R.G i'm quite aware of what hot metal can do (first hand) - my brother is a casting engineer and went couple of times to see a big pot (50Ton) of hot melted metal - quite a site

@MrStab - you can also trip over a threshold, bump your head on a corner and ... the last person you will see will be the coroner nothing to argue here

@armdnrdy - well i guess you will have to be a little more careful

@CodeMonk - thank you for your advice and i've noted it. Already ordered a big piece of granite to put the pot over it and secure it in place with screws.
I'm wearing glasses by default and i did my part of solder splashes on my hand - the only cause of that was because i was ignorant on what was happening around (i do hope i grew over that).

@PRR - true that but again... working with high voltages in an amp is not? And the possibility to screw something up inside it's quite big. I'm running small batches of PCBs so it's not quite a DIY job for me, at least for the projects to come.

@R.G - indeed meted anything is not mixing well with water, but may i ask ... how safe is the muriatic acid used for etching or NaOH ... or even the FeCl3?

@blackieNYC - i would love to visit Kansas

Now as some words of my own, i didn't post this so you will follow my example (a disclaimer should be posted - i will look into it ASAP) but, for me it's a method to speed things up a little bit.
As i said, dangers exist even in DIY world and we can argue about that, from chemicals (btw i was burned with couple of drops of concentrated NaOH solution and it wasn't pleasant at all - not in the workshop but back in my collage years) to high voltage but... i didn't see any mentions about this in any of the comments
So a high awareness it's required at least for me, because, in my workshop 400g of melted solder would be the last thing to worry about. I'm operating a small and a big lathe, a milling machine and a grinder almost 3-4 times a week. Also i'm using a TIG/WIG welder at least once a week - and believe me that the melted steel it's much hotter then melted solder.
All the comments as i said are appreciated and i've learned some things from them, for which i thank you all, but i'm not the only person that is using a solder pot for different operations. So before we talk about the danger of melted solder maybe we should think about the danger of using: HCl, FeCl3, H2O2, NaOH, toxic fumes, dust, high voltage or high current, exploding caps, tripping over a mat or dying in a car crash when you drive thowrds the shop.

Regards,
DeX

[gtudoran]

I'm sorry for double post.
But here we go: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=solder+pot
Also Hakko it's selling something like that:

Regards,
Dex

[blackieNYC]

Sounds like you know what you are doing.  But the stern and sincere warnings must be emphasized, if not for you, then for the novices and occasional dingbats that might be getting excited about saving ten minutes on a pedal that takes a month to build.  I've used the pot at a manufacturer's job, just for tinning wires. We did hundreds in an hour, can't beat it.
Tasteful reply to the dog-pile reprimands, BTW! Some folks lose all sense of class when getting their posts shot down.

[R.G.]

So a high awareness it's required at least for me, because, in my workshop 400g of melted solder would be the last thing to worry about. I'm operating a small and a big lathe, a milling machine and a grinder almost 3-4 times a week. Also i'm using a TIG/WIG welder at least once a week - and believe me that the melted steel it's much hotter then melted solder.

OK. Good point. You keep an assortment of rattlesnakes around and have survived the condition. So far. This is a group I include myself in.

If you still have all of your fingers and only a modicum of scars, that puts you into this group - people who ought to be warning others about how dangerous rattlesnakes really are and how to ameliorate the danger of getting bitten if one insists on handling them.

I'll include you in the term "we" then. We deal here every day with people who had no clue which end of a soldering iron to hold a few days before they posted here, and who may well not remember the year 2000. They're not aware of how very quickly an easy-looking situation can turn into a trip to the medical emergency room. We have a moral obligation to try to at least let them make informed choices about how they will risk their health.

Yes, there are a lot of dangerous materials, tools and techniques that we use - but we are trained about them, one way or another, and because of the assortment of scars we carry, we have a healthy appreciation of the dangers. We never know the skill and education level of other posters on the forums, because they may be 12 years old and able to order solder pots from ebay, drink the HCl, start fires by messing with high voltage.

It ain't us we're worried about. It's them. Give them a better chance of accumulating only minor scars.

[blackieNYC]

Just one more

Too big?

[gtudoran]

@blackieNYC - i can't answer with rudeness and high pitch voice to some very fine people that made their point in a very civilized and respectful manner. Internet is a public place and if you post something in a public place and you ask for opinions / comments then you should prepare yourself to the fact that your opinions/actions will differ from the other opinions and actions i do think that this is one of the most civilized forums.

@RG true that ...have some scars and quite some accidents (some because of me .. some because of the wrong moments ... also can be cataloged as "because of me ").
Indeed i will try and modify the post and have a small disclaimer that will state some warning words. In fact ... i should have done that from the start.

Regards,
DeX

[Kipper4]

" do think that this is one of the most civilized forums."

I beg to differ sir.
I didnt see Blackies posts as offensive. Flip maybe, IMO I dont think he meant it in a bad way.
theres a great deal of banter and in jokes but rarely anything mean.

The guys have a point as you have recognised the potential for danger is evident and warrents a disclaimer.,
Not just members visit here also a great deal of Guests visit for advice, know how, solutions and debugging, design ideas, Some of the circuits even end up on the market from the far east with or without permissions and credits.

If it works for you do it. I'm not sorry I saw it and I thank you for sharing. I just know this wouldnt suit me or my working environment.

Happy soldering buddy
Rich