Suhr Riot Clone is VERY quiet, have some questions.

[shoegazecity]

Hello all,

So I tried my luck at building the Suhr Riot (Fixed version) on Tag Board Effects. I completed the build, and I can hear the distortion coming through the amp, but it is extremely quiet. I can tell that the gain, tone, and volume knob are all doing what they're supposed to, but again, it's so quiet that I can barely hear that it's working. My LED's (used as diodes) are flickering a bit, and when I "wiggle" the input wire, they seem to flicker even more. I tried resoldering an input wire, but no luck. Here are some other things that I might've done wrong:

1. I'm using a JRC4558D instead of the JRC4580 (I read that this is okay to do).

2. I'm using 1N914 Diodes instead of the 51V Zeners (This was also recommended to do)

3. There is a 1uF Ceramic Capacitor on the bottom right of the layout, I am using a 1.2uF Ceramic Cap instead (Tayda did not have 1uF... Is this okay?)

4. On my DPDT on/on/on switch, I am connecting two things to Sw5 (or "lug 5" of the switch): Lug 3 of the Tone knob, AND the circuit board where it reads "Tone 3". Am I correct in doing this, or should only one of these be connected to the switch?

I assume that I built this correctly because again, I can hear the effect come through the amp (and it sounds great) but once again, is extremely quiet. I will attach photos of both the tagboard layout and the top and bottom of my circuit. Keep in mind: My iron melted a tiny portion of the copper strip on the solder side, but I've taken proper measures to fix it (this includes the 47uF capacitor on the solder side, and the long red wire on the solder side).

I'm guessing it's just a classic strip board problem, as this is one of the more advanced tagboard circuits that I've attempted. I've reheated all of my solder joints, and measured to make sure everything was touching what it's supposed to and vice-versa.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Thanks!

[duck_arse]

shoe - can you provide a circuit diagram, so we can see whether or not you are connecting enough things together?

looking at that 1u2 cap, I can tell you it is not a 1u2 cap. please tell us the numbers and letters printed on it. a 1uF would be marked 1uF or 105M or 105K or 105J, a 1.2uF would be 125K or like that.

mostly we use single strand tinned copper wire links for linking on vero, they lay flat on the board and use up all those resistor cut-offs. why all the stranded links?

[edit :] if you have another poly cap laying around, any value like 100nF or 220nF up to 1uF, try bridging it across the "1uF" cap (use those resistor legs) and see if that loudens things.

[Kipper4]

IIRC the zeners are not directly replacable with 1n914. I could be wrong but without looking at the schemo its hard to tell

also did you get the right switch it needs to be DPDT. on on on (not the same switchs we use for true bypass)

[shoegazecity]

shoe - can you provide a circuit diagram, so we can see whether or not you are connecting enough things together?

Unfortunately, I only have the vero layout from tagboard 

looking at that 1u2 cap, I can tell you it is not a 1u2 cap. please tell us the numbers and letters printed on it. a 1uF would be marked 1uF or 105M or 105K or 105J, a 1.2uF would be 125K or like that.

The ceramic cap that I thought was a 1u2 reads 1.2 The part is labeled 1.2pF, and ordered from Tayda Electronics. I'm now realizing that this should probably say 1uF as opposed to 1pF... Could this be my problem?!

mostly we use single strand tinned copper wire links for linking on vero, they lay flat on the board and use up all those resistor cut-offs. why all the stranded links?

If you're referring to the red/green links on the solder side, I figured it would give me more room to work on top if I connected my links on the solder side. Is that what you mean? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

if you have another poly cap laying around, any value like 100nF or 220nF up to 1uF, try bridging it across the "1uF" cap (use those resistor legs) and see if that loudens things.

I do have 100nF film caps laying around. When you say "bridging it", do you mean just replace the "1uF" cap with this 100nF cap? I'm not quite sure what bridge means...

Thanks for your help so far, please let me know if you think my issue is that 1.2pF cap.

[shoegazecity]

@kipper4

IIRC the zeners are not directly replacable with 1n914. I could be wrong but without looking at the schemo its hard to tell

It was verified on Tagboard by multiple people that these would work.

also did you get the right switch it needs to be DPDT. on on on (not the same switchs we use for true bypass)

I believe I do have the correct switch, a DPDT on/on/on switch.

[Kipper4]

fair do.
I stand corrected.

[shoegazecity]

@kipper4

Thanks anyways 

[Kipper4]

No probs

Heres a thread i found with the search. Its very useful.
It may or may not hold clues for you

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=103334.msg925373#msg925373

[bloxstompboxes]

The ceramic cap that I thought was a 1u2 reads 1.2 The part is labeled 1.2pF, and ordered from Tayda Electronics. I'm now realizing that this should probably say 1uF as opposed to 1pF... Could this be my problem?!

mostly we use single strand tinned copper wire links for linking on vero, they lay flat on the board and use up all those resistor cut-offs. why all the stranded links?

If you're referring to the red/green links on the solder side, I figured it would give me more room to work on top if I connected my links on the solder side. Is that what you mean? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

if you have another poly cap laying around, any value like 100nF or 220nF up to 1uF, try bridging it across the "1uF" cap (use those resistor legs) and see if that loudens things.

I do have 100nF film caps laying around. When you say "bridging it", do you mean just replace the "1uF" cap with this 100nF cap? I'm not quite sure what bridge means...

Thanks for your help so far, please let me know if you think my issue is that 1.2pF cap.

That 1.2pF is definitely not helping matters if the circuit calls for a 1uF. I am at work and can't see a whole lot, but I would definitely swap it out with a 1uF when you have one.

[shoegazecity]

@bloxstompboxes

That 1.2pF is definitely not helping matters if the circuit calls for a 1uF. I am at work and can't see a whole lot, but I would definitely swap it out with a 1uF when you have one.

Gotcha, I'm gonna try to run to Radio Shack and see if they have some... I don't know if I would have the patience to wait for that order to arrive 

Thanks a lot.

Alas, Radio Shack sucks and did not have it... Now to play the waiting game 

[shoegazecity]

Does anyone know if this will work for the 1uF Cap?

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/1uf-50v-multilayer-ceramic-capacitor.html

It's all that Tayda has...

[bluebunny]

Does anyone know if this will work for the 1uF Cap?

Yes it will.

[duck_arse]

shoe - when I say bridge, I mean bridge. you can just hold the cap and poke the leads so they connect to that 100k and that 82k5179343 resistor, so it will then be "bridging" and parallel to the offending 1p5. but, as you need to pull that little cap out, you could just tack solder it under the board, to see if it makes a difference.

and yes, the red green links. don't let me tell you how to do your builds! but, can I ask, will you use the stranded wire/copper side links on your next build, or the resistor cut-offs topside?

that tadya cap is adequate. some people claim those caps "have a sound", others don't know or don't care, and use them because they are cheap/small/the right value/on hand/from tayda/brownie-yellow.

[shoegazecity]

Awesome thanks, I ordered the cap and we'll see what happens!

@duck_arse

shoe - when I say bridge, I mean bridge. you can just hold the cap and poke the leads so they connect to that 100k and that 82k5179343 resistor, so it will then be "bridging" and parallel to the offending 1p5. but, as you need to pull that little cap out, you could just tack solder it under the board, to see if it makes a difference.

Thanks for the info, I'm gonna see if that cap does the trick before I try bridging anything.

but, can I ask, will you use the stranded wire/copper side links on your next build, or the resistor cut-offs topside?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "resistor cut-offs". If you mean linking copper side versus top side, I would like to get into doing it on the topside (that seems like the "normal" way).

that tadya cap is adequate. some people claim those caps "have a sound", others don't know or don't care, and use them because they are cheap/small/the right value/on hand/from tayda/brownie-yellow.

Hopefully it will work and I won't notice any strange "sounds". Thanks a lot for all the info!

[tommycataus]

I've built a few of these from this layout and have only been able to get a decent result from NE5532 in the absence of JRC4580. Tried a bunch of other ICs. Might not be the issue with your build, but it's worth a try if you have any lying around.

[duck_arse]

resistor cut offs - you poke a resitor through its appointed holes, solder, then cut off the excess. what do you do wit der cut off legs? they are just the right size/weight of wire to use as component-side links, but only if they are long enuff to reach. and you should put the links on the board first anyway.

you can buy single-strand tinned copper wire just to use for links, you want something around 0.5mm dia. there are wire sizes, but I don't know them.

[J0K3RX]

The ceramic 1u cap in the tagboard layout does not have to be ceramic. It can be mylar, box or whatever... You could use a 470n cap there if you don't have a 1u, should work fine. What you have in the pic is almost certainly not 1u!


The schematic helps a lot! 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11178619/Suhr/Idiot%20Schematic%20Latest.pdf

You can use this, probably your best bet.. but the other you chose will work fine also
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/polyester-film-box-type-capacitors/1uf-100v-5-polyester-film-box-type-capacitor.html

[shoegazecity]

@ tommycataus

I've built a few of these from this layout and have only been able to get a decent result from NE5532 in the absence of JRC4580. Tried a bunch of other ICs. Might not be the issue with your build, but it's worth a try if you have any lying around.

Thanks for the tip! I might try a NE5532 if my JRC doesn't work.

[shoegazecity]

@duck_arse

resistor cut offs - you poke a resitor through its appointed holes, solder, then cut off the excess. what do you do wit der cut off legs? they are just the right size/weight of wire to use as component-side links, but only if they are long enuff to reach. and you should put the links on the board first anyway.

I do put the links on the board first. I've used cut off resistor legs to link things before, but not on strip boards. I'll have to give it a shot, thanks!

[shoegazecity]

@J0K3RX

The ceramic 1u cap in the tagboard layout does not have to be ceramic. It can be mylar, box or whatever... You could use a 470n cap there if you don't have a 1u, should work fine. What you have in the pic is almost certainly not 1u!

Thanks for the tip, I've already ordered the one from Tayda that I posted before, so hopefully that does the trick.

The schematic helps a lot! 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11178619/Suhr/Idiot%20Schematic%20Latest.pdf

Thanks a bunch for the schematic! That will definitely come in handy.

Cheers!