2in1 switching (again...) but different

[lars-musik]

I am trying to get my head around a switching problem but it seems I really need help.

I built a two-in-one pedal (basically a "box of rock") including an overdrive and a boost.
The thing is going inside a 1590a, so there will be just one (3pdt) footswitch.

Now I would like to implement the following options:
1) The footswitch activates both circuits with the boost previously dialed in or out (per small sliding switch).
2) The footswitch activates the only the overdrive, the boost is manually dialed in or out again per small sliding switch quasi parallel in series with the drive section (as an "always on" booster).

I have the feeling, that such a schemo must exist somewhere. But even it is does (I found the "juggler") I still got too small a brain to translate these ideas to my actual case.

[garcho]

would a 3PDT toggle be tolerable? how about something like this:



also, having a boost after a drive doesn't make all that much sense to me, why that order?

[potul]

If I understand correctly you want the 3PDT in option 1 to bypass the whole thing (including the booster), but then in option 2 you want it to bypass only the drive, right?

And I assume you want some sort of switch to change option 1 / 2

This is going to be challenging.... The juggler is just reversing the order of the effects, but in your case you want to take a portion of the circuit "out" of the bypass.

I'm not saying it's not possible... but the switching required will be complex. Maybe with a 3pdt or a roatey switch it can be done.

[garcho]

i was thinking two toggle switches, one like what i drew above, and the other DPDT that places the boost in the bypass path. can you fit two toggles in there?

The thing is going inside a 1590a

really no room for a 1590B? the B is less than an inch longer and less than an inch wider. why not have two foot switches, one boost, one drive? why not have two 1590A pedals, one boost, one drive? for that matter, why have boost and distortion parallel? plenty of ways to mix clean with dirty without a standalone boost circuit. Just curious

[lars-musik]

Thanks for the suggestions. I have to draw this up in Diptrace so that I understand exactly what you mean (my imagination is somewhat limited when it comes to switches with multiple throws).

i was thinking two toggle switches, one like what i drew above, and the other DPDT that places the boost in the bypass path. can you fit two toggles in there?

Yes, I pretty confident I could get 5 of those little switches in there: Ebay Mini DPDT. I bought about 50 of them.

really no room for a 1590B? the B is less than an inch longer and less than an inch wider. why not have two foot switches, one boost, one drive? why not have two 1590A pedals, one boost, one drive

Well, that's a bit hard to explain... I just need to cram everything into the 1590a. The more, the merrier. Some kind of obsession, I guess (like this one: Clari(not)³)

for that matter, why have boost and distortion parallel? plenty of ways to mix clean with dirty without a standalone boost circuit. Just curious

Ah, I made a mistake there. Parallel is wrong, of course. The boost should follow the Drive in series. But without being in the footswitch loop. I am going to edit the post above.

Why all this? I have the feeling, not much love is lost here for all of ZVEX's BS170 stuff (Box of Rock, Distortron, SHO, Super Duper 2in1, Box of Metal) but I like the Box of Rock and the SHO quite a bit (although the names are really painful).
And I figured  that - with some switches -  I could make myself a pretty versatile little pedal that would comprise the Box of Rock, the SHO and the Super Duper (by lifting the signal after the first gain stage of the Drive plus the extra SHO).
PLUS I'd like to have the possibilities to have the SHO as always on effect (for these days that just need a little more noise).

also, having a boost after a drive doesn't make all that much sense to me, why that order?

That indeed looks strange, but it is how the box of rock is wired. I tried both ways round and think it's good this way. Maybe the SHO shouldn't be called a Boost. It can get quite rough when pushed by some gain in front of it. But maybe I'll implement a juggler, too?

[garcho]

^ hey man, i get it, and whatever sounds good is always right

i don't understand the 1590A obsession, but i certainly understand obsession! so as far as that goes, and considering, at least judging by that Clair(not), you can fit more in a 1590A than i can in a B, let's look at the switching some more.



leave off the right pole of the switch on the left (bypassed buffer input ground) if you would like to have the buffer out of the drive chain but in the "bypass" chain. you might have to finesse this some to make you sure you don't have popping, weird noise, etc.

did i get close? or did i misunderstand the question again, ha!

[lars-musik]

^ hey man, i get it, and whatever sounds good is always right

Wow,  that looks crazy. Certainly I wouldn't be able to make something like that up. If the "Buff(er)"  is my Boost,  then I try to diptrace that in the morning and hope I'll be able to follow you.
Big thanks!

[garcho]

yes BUFF is 'Boost', my typo

hopefully there's not too much wackiness with pulling this chunk in and out of the circuit so crudely. might wanna add some poles if there's a way to add some two-lead components that smooth out the transition. or find a multi pole/throw rotary switch and hardwire the option. then just turn through each setting. thinking with my fingers...

[lars-musik]

I tried to translate the wiring into some kind of schematic. This might work! Will you have another look if that's it? I'm prone to major oversights.

Ha - maybe I'll throw in a millenium bypass for good measure.

[potul]

At a first glance, .... this doesn't look right.

In the status shown in the drawing nothing is connected to the OUT.

[lars-musik]

Hi potul,

well spotted, thanks. That switch was upside down. Better now?

[garcho]

that's still not right, but close. anywho, i just realized that you can lose two of the poles altogether, the right-side poles of both switches. try this without grounding the input of the bypassed BOOST, you'll probably be fine, and this way you won't have a chance of grounding the input altogether, which is what is happening in that diagram, and what i referred to earlier. it will also simplify wiring. it will be easy enough to change that later if it is a problem.

so, get rid of the long, unbroken line that represents true bypass, you don't want that in there if you want the "always on" option for the boost.

get rid of the pole that grounds the boost input. nothing else to change there.

get rid of the right-hand side pole for the "always on" boost switch and hard-wire to the 3PDT instead.

[lars-musik]

Phew. This is getting complicated. What - if - then - but! I've never been good at chess nor programming.
I'm glad, you all help.

Did I nail it this time?

[flanagan0718]

I just went through this on a Multi I did. Here is the wiring I used.



Here is the worded break down. (I had to write it out to understand it)

-Box of rock board in to Box of rock switch board in
-Box of rock switch jack out to jack out tip
-Box of rock switch jack in to jack in tip

-Box of rock board out to boost switch jack in

-Boost switch jack out to Box of rock switch board out

-Boost board in to boost switch board in
-Boost board out to boost switch board out

-Ground to Ground

It worked for me. Hope it helps.

[lars-musik]

Thanks, Mike.

Yes, I've seen that one before. But I think it lacks the options a) to have the Boost always on whilst switching the Drive part in and out and b) have both effects in series and switch them in and out per footswitch together.
Or does this wiring do this?

Because my way of understanding these wiring diagrams is to draw up a Diptrace schematic. If you say you Box of Rock has all these options I would do another drawing but I cannot imagine it possible with only two switches.

[garcho]

i'm working right now but i can draw you the correct one in a bit

[lars-musik]

Oh. Still not correct, ey? Thanks for the drawing to come.

[flanagan0718]

Thanks, Mike.

Yes, I've seen that one before. But I think it lacks the options a) to have the Boost always on whilst switching the Drive part in and out and b) have both effects in series and switch them in and out per footswitch together.
Or does this wiring do this?

Because my way of understanding these wiring diagrams is to draw up a Diptrace schematic. If you say you Box of Rock has all these options I would do another drawing but I cannot imagine it possible with only two switches.

The wiring I posted allows you to have a "Master" switch. The Master will turn the entire box on and off. However, the Boost / Add on circuit will not come on unless the master is engaged. It will allow you to turn the "Add on circuit" on and off so it automatically comes on (or is off) with the master switch.

It sounds like you want a Boost with switchable drive. In this case I would just switch the circuits so the Boost is the "Master" and the Drive is the "Add on". Hope it Helps.

-Mike-

[lars-musik]

Hi Mike,
unfortunatly I want even more! For example that the boost stays on, even when the master switch is turned off. Sounds weird but may be useful.

So I risk another one (this time backed up by some paper, here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/osf7qunhxsj07gb/Wiring_7_variants.pdf)

I had to let go of all input groundings when turned off (was that what you wrote about, Gary? Then I didn't get it before) and one combination results in a redundant setting, but that will be problem only when it comes to labeling the switches.

[flanagan0718]

Yeah looks like you're over my head . Maybe an effects order switch or a 4pdt might be in your future. good luck.