Maestro FZ-1s help. erg.

[bifbangpow]

Depsite the fact that this is not my first time making this pedal, I am currently having trouble finding the problem here. When I plug it in, nothing happens (not even the LED).  No clean sound at all. AND I noticed the 9v battery got really really hot within seconds.  I figured it might be a grounding issue but I'm not finding anything.

So.

Here's the build layout I'm using: Maestro FZ-1s from General Guitar Gadgets 
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/effects-projects/fuzz-tones/maestro-fz-1s

I didn't make any changes to the layout other than moving where the holes are drilled. 



R1 - R25: ALL MEASURE 0.03/ 0.02
C1-C12: SAME
(I'm getting that reading on everything on the board)

Anyone see anything wrong in these photos?

My solder had a hard time staying on the copper for this one:


Circuit Board from top view:


And the pedal from top view:

[duck_arse]

a hot getting batttery indicates excessive load, like from a short somewhere. it can also mean a dead battery, so check it before its next mission critical use. looking at your pcb copper side, I can see a thin line all around and down the left hand side. this would be a good place to start looking, or just remove all the copper that's not supposed to be there.

otherwise, it's the dmm on low ohms, and probing.

[bifbangpow]

a hot getting batttery indicates excessive load, like from a short somewhere. it can also mean a dead battery, so check it before its next mission critical use. looking at your pcb copper side, I can see a thin line all around and down the left hand side. this would be a good place to start looking, or just remove all the copper that's not supposed to be there.

otherwise, it's the dmm on low ohms, and probing.

HOw would you go about removing such a thin line of copper?

[JustinFun]

HOw would you go about removing such a thin line of copper?

Sandpaper, or scalpel/craft knife, or file it off would be all possibilities.

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but are you sure your board is completely etched? It kind of looks like there's still a thin layer of copper across much of the board.

If that's the case, tbh, you're screwed. 

[bifbangpow]

HOw would you go about removing such a thin line of copper?

Sandpaper, or scalpel/craft knife, or file it off would be all possibilities.

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but are you sure your board is completely etched? It kind of looks like there's still a thin layer of copper across much of the board.

If that's the case, tbh, you're screwed. 

Jesus I hope that's not the case. I'll have to start over. It was in the solution for like an hour so I would be surprised. But on the other hand it does look quite different from my other boards in color. I figured it was just from over-etching.

[bifbangpow]

Pretty sure it was the board. Etching a new one now. Ugh.

[Mark Hammer]

Etching for an hour?  How old is your etchant bath?  How thick is the copper?

If the etchant is reasonably fresh or not especially used, you should be able to etch a board like that in 15 minutes, tops, maybe a bit longer if you're doing it in a cold garage.  But an hour suggests a problematic etch.

One of the things that happens when an etch takes too long is that the etchant starts eating away at the sides of the traces and pads, instead of just etching "vertically" from the bare surface down to the fibreglass (or whatever the board is made from).

One of the things I recommend to people who find shorts in a populated board is to clean the flux off with an appropriate solution.  Me, I use methyl hydrate, because it is cheap and available, but I understanbd there are better things to use.  Whatever you use, cleaning the flux off allows you to more clearly see where there might be bridges, rather than assuming everything under the flux is just ducky.

Etching is accelerated by heat.  Some folks use a heated etchant bath, but realistically, the only etchant you need to be concerned with is whatever is in the immediate vicinity of the board.  So, what I do is gently place the board in the etchant, copper side down, so that it is floating like a raft.  I then warm the board (and any etchant in contact with it) with a hair dryer or a heat gun set to a lower temperature.  Yeah, there's a bit of standing involved, but it shortens the etching interval considerably.

Good luck with the circuit.  I'm fortunate enough to own an actual FZ-1S (actually a vintage board that was given to me and rehoused in a 125C chassis) and its a nice pedal with a lot of different tones.

[thermionix]

I keep seeing threads with TINY little pictures in them.  Is it maybe because I'm using a PC and not a phone?  Or are people just uploading thumbnails for some reason?  Seems other folks reply as if they can see the pics in some detail.  I'm confused.  Sorry for going off-topic.

[bifbangpow]

Etching for an hour?  How old is your etchant bath?  How thick is the copper?

If the etchant is reasonably fresh or not especially used, you should be able to etch a board like that in 15 minutes, tops, maybe a bit longer if you're doing it in a cold garage.  But an hour suggests a problematic etch.

One of the things that happens when an etch takes too long is that the etchant starts eating away at the sides of the traces and pads, instead of just etching "vertically" from the bare surface down to the fibreglass (or whatever the board is made from).

One of the things I recommend to people who find shorts in a populated board is to clean the flux off with an appropriate solution.  Me, I use methyl hydrate, because it is cheap and available, but I understanbd there are better things to use.  Whatever you use, cleaning the flux off allows you to more clearly see where there might be bridges, rather than assuming everything under the flux is just ducky.

Etching is accelerated by heat.  Some folks use a heated etchant bath, but realistically, the only etchant you need to be concerned with is whatever is in the immediate vicinity of the board.  So, what I do is gently place the board in the etchant, copper side down, so that it is floating like a raft.  I then warm the board (and any etchant in contact with it) with a hair dryer or a heat gun set to a lower temperature.  Yeah, there's a bit of standing involved, but it shortens the etching interval considerably.

Good luck with the circuit.  I'm fortunate enough to own an actual FZ-1S (actually a vintage board that was given to me and rehoused in a 125C chassis) and its a nice pedal with a lot of different tones.

Yeah it was intended to be in the bath  that long.  Nevertheless I etched a new one in about 20 minutes and it looks great so I'm just gonna do it over.

[peterg]

As Duck Arse pointed out the thin line of copper showing on the photo of the first board needs to be removed. Otherwise most of your wires will be grounded and/or connected to each other.

[PRR]

> I keep seeing threads with TINY little pictures in them.

Pictures in post # 1 are, for me, 6 inches across, essentially real-life size (when I put my fingers to the picture with fingers). Pentium G3220 PC, Win7, FireFox, 19-inch monitor.

> Is it maybe because I'm using a PC and not a phone?

Best say what "PC" and *browser*, and what other software you have which might be messing with browser images.

[duck_arse]

don't forget, if etching in FeCl, you MUST MUST MUST agitate the solution, or BRUSH BRUSH BRUSH-off gently the black gunk that forms on the copper.

one of my fave methods of removing little bits of copper is to dab the soldering iron tip with clean solder, then heat the carp outta the offending Cu, running the tip up and back. the glue won't stand the heat, gives up the copper and the ghost. clean your tip afterwards.

I thought the pictures were about, perhaps slightly smaller than, optimum size.

[thermionix]

> I keep seeing threads with TINY little pictures in them.

Pictures in post # 1 are, for me, 6 inches across, essentially real-life size (when I put my fingers to the picture with fingers). Pentium G3220 PC, Win7, FireFox, 19-inch monitor.

> Is it maybe because I'm using a PC and not a phone?

Best say what "PC" and *browser*, and what other software you have which might be messing with browser images.

Pics for me are about 1" x 2" on a 19" monitor.  Even if I "copy image location" and view in a new tab, it's the same.  My browser is Firefox.  PC is embarassingly ancient!  It's a P4 running XP.  Yes, really.  Most posted images are large, some huge, but here and there I see these tiny ones.  My setup must not get along with certain hosting sites.

Or maybe I have some bad tubes.


Edit: seems the issue is primarily with images hosted at postimg.org.  Weird.  Oh well.

[PRR]

Could be bad tubes, yes. Vacuum tube computers should have workers with shopping-carts full of spare tubes.

Postimg seems to be un-changed since the last days XP was officially supported. I do know my XP developed more and more quirks and slows, and finally imploded last year. Extended autopsy suggests drive failure (not detected by the usual Windows tools); but I also wonder about the raft of windows vulnerabilities no longer patched in XP.

I was *really* fond of XP, and Win7 has not been a totally happy change. But the machine is faster (at same nominal clock speed) and I suspect the O/S is faster, if only because it has not been crufted-up with years of "stuff".

Can you sit-at your child or parent or friend's newer machine, look in here, and see if it works better?

[thermionix]

Well, there's a postimg hosted schematic in the OP of this thread:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=113568.0

It shows up as a thumbnail to me, but in this case it's a hot link.  If I open it, it's a large image.  Don't know what the difference is there.

No big deal, though, I'm only missing out on a fraction of images, and most are related to issues I can't help people with anyway.  Don't know when I'll be around a different computer to try.

My XP runs as good as it ever did, I keep it all pretty lean and clean.  Internet is slowly passing me by, though.  Youtube is very sluggish, I have to capture the videos and play them offline if I want smooth.  HD video is a no-go, but I can put it on a stick and watch it on my TV.  Any site with too much Javascript BS is problematic.

Someday soon gonna have to bite the bullet.  I just hope I can still use my Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar.  I rarely use it now, but for some reason it remains important to me, dammit!

[thermionix]

if etching in FeCl

Gross, man!

[duck_arse]

FeCl₃?

Any site with too much Javascript BS is problematic.

doesn't leave much, does it? [installing linux might better-up your slow machine, I'm also in the P4 era.]

[thermionix]

Yeah I know what etching solution is.  I have a bottle of it...but not for its intended purpose.

I know jack squat about Linux.  I'll just keep treading water for now.

[PRR]

> still use my Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar

$400 joy-stick, I can see why you want to keep it.

FWIW, the ThrustMaster support site page claims:

"PC - Drivers / Hotas Cougar
"Windows 10/ 8/ 7 - No drivers are required for this device    2015-09-10
"This device is fully compliant with the "Human Interface Device" (HID) specifications. By simply connecting your device to the computer's USB port, it will be installed automatically by Windows, ensuring you a perfect compatibility with any games and programs (such as T.A.R.G.E.T)."

Apparently this "fancy joystick" appears to Windows as a plain ordinary keyboard and/or mouse.

There's calibration and programming utilities to map "stick actions" to "keystrokes" or change leverage. Ya never know when new Windows will confound older software. But the ThrustMaster page shows this code works for XP-to-Win10, even 64-bit:

"T.A.R.G.E.T SOFTWARE - 1.0    2011-03-09
"System requirements: - Windows 10 / 8.1 / 8 / 7 / Vista / XP (32-bit / 64-bit)
Supported Thrustmaster products:"
" ... ... - HOTAS Cougar .... "

Lurkers: "HOTAS" is not what you might think. "Hands On Stick And Throttle", the only way to fly high-performance aircraft.

[PRR]

> postimg hosted schematic in the OP

Yes, and it is apparently a plain simple link to a JPG file (not a redirection placeholder, not tarted-up with tracking code).

I assume you keep FireFox up to date (mine shows 44.0.2 but is downloading yet another bug-patch.... now 45.0).

I don't see an image-scale option in FF.