Pulling my hair out trying to fig out why this wont work

[Fndr8875]

Ok i have a Rullywow Soda Meiser pcb, and the 3pdt pcb that goes along with it.

http://www.rullywow.com/product/popsizer/ the 3pdt pcb is shown at bottom of page.

I followed the build guide exactly, exact parts, A100k board mounted pots, and spdt switch, 2 mono jacks.

Im on my 3rd 3pdt switch and 3pdt pcb. when i plug the effect pcb into my breadboard everything works perfectly fine. But when installed inside the enclosure ( hammond 1590b red) i get power ( tested with multimeter at dc jack pins, 9.30v, to 3pdt pcb 9.30v, to effect pcb 9.30v) led comes on, i get bypass, but effect is barely there. Volume and pregain knobs work switched both ways. I have tested continuity in every way i can think of. i didnt test values of any components vecbause when plugged into breadboard everything works as it should. PLease Help

[Cozybuilder]

The pots are mounted to the board, did you use a pot condom on each? If not, then its possible the PCB leads are shorting on the pots. You could slip a piece of plastic between the pots and board and see if that helps.

[GibsonGM]

What Russ suggests, and also - ANY short to the enclosure would cause issues...so you must be careful how you install it!  Be SURE no part of the circuit board can touch the metal enclosure....I use something inside like thick cardboard, mouse pad, etc....to be sure of this.

Got a pic of it mounted in there not working?  Sometimes more eyes can help.   When you test on breadboard - this is without the 3PDT and jacks, or with?  Could be an error there, eh?

[Fndr8875]

yea there are pot condoms on there, when on breadboard no switch is used. the board is tiny so im sure its nothing with the board. Ill post pics tonight when i get home.

[Fndr8875]

grounding issue would cause no sound when effect is engaged right? I am getting a low signal with a tad bit of overdrive, which for a soda meiser isnt even close to what i should get. I dont see how it would be the board since it works straight to breadboard, and am confused on where switch issue  would be since it switches back and forth. The 3pdt has power ground led input output and ground on it which all show continutiy and correct power. Anyway ill post pics when i get home tonight, thanks for post and anyone else who has any comments

[Cozybuilder]

Heres one other quick check- make sure that you didn't reverse your input and output jacks when you placed it in the box- its a common error.

[vigilante397]

Heres one other quick check- make sure that you didn't reverse your input and output jacks when you placed it in the box- its a common error.

Waaaaayyyy too common

[Jdansti]

I followed the build guide exactly

Maybe - maybe not. I'm not trying to be an ass or insulting, but saying "I followed the build guide exactly" is useless information to the people trying to help you . While it's possible that you might have a bad part, 99% of the time the problem is operator error. You most likely missed something in the instructions, or you missed something that the author of the instructions assumed you already knew. For example, many build docs don't include how to wire up power and the bypass switch. The instructions probably don't tell you how to solder or to check for solder bridges and open traces among a host of other things. They assume you know all of this or can get the info from another source.  Approach a troubleshooting session with a completely open mind thinking that anything could be wrong.

It would be helpful if you said, "I didn't make any parts substitutions" or "I substituted part X for Y".

Carry on. 

[duck_arse]

I would do a check that the jack tips are connected to signal wires, and the jack sleeves are connected to actual ground wires, and the two were not in any way mixed.

then I'd carry on.

[Fndr8875]

im positve that input output jack are wired correctly because on the 3pdt pcb it is labled IJ OJ, and also because i put a stereo jack in to eliminate possibility of dc jack causing power issues. and the fact that it bypasses fine from no effect to effect. As far as saying i followed the build guide exactly, i did. I used specified components  such as film caps, 1n5817 diode, mpsa18 transistors, 2.2m, 3.3m, 10k, 1k resistors, A100k right angle potentiometers. I am using small bear tinned solid core 24 awg , which i orderd by mistake. I have gone ahead and taken a break from build and ordered some pre bonded 22 and 24awg wire from small bear. will rewire it once that arrives. I appreciate everyones responses, it is a little annoying at the nit picking in how I or others word things and to get responses that dont add anything to helpout. As i stated as far as following build guide, I followed it down to every last detail, but just because i did i never assumed that would automatically take away any chance at having any problems and the pedal working pefectly without a hitch. Anyway, i always appreciate any input, this is my first build from a pcb, i dont know a whole lot about the technicality of why or how alot of stuff works, i get confused easily and know most people on here know more than i do, but in my opinion i have started wondering if its even worth the effort of posting on here as a lot of my post have gotten answers critisizing me for posting without reading every troubleshooting doc that exist, and for the most part i have, but my thing is, when i post IT IS BECAUSE I DONT UNDERSTAND or and having trouble comprehending something, and i am looking for help from more experience builders who have been in similar situation and there lightbulb clicked on and they can help, ive read other message boards and i dont see much of these things. Isnt what this board is here for, i agree dont get on here and expect people to spoon feed you every little detail of how to build a pedal, and i understand somethings are very technical and there isnt an easier way to explain it. Anyway, ive kinda felt this way for a while and not directing it at anyone one repsonse. But anyway, im sure ill get blasted for this post but anyway.

[Fndr8875]

also reversing the input output jacks would result in no signal, my original quesiton is does anyone know of off the top of there head what might cause an effect to have adequate power, since every point was traced w MM, switches fine from bypass back and forth, but for the fuzz in my case to work 100 percent correctly on breadboard with out the 3pdt, but when hooked back up the effect isnt working fully, ie reduced volume, about 5 percent of expected effect, pots work fine, vol taper is good and pregain taper is good. , like i said i think its the wire im using , thin solid core is prone the break easily when its been moved or flexed sev times, and idk its the last thing i can think of since everything else works as it should mechanically, and the circuit works on a breadboard. I cant really get good pics , my stupid phone doesnt have a flash on it and i took a bunch but they just arentc coming out to where you can make out detail required for them to be helpful. My next thing im thinking is something with the 3pdt pcb, and to just use a 3pdt without the pcb, if new wire doesnt sort it out ill have to order some more switches.

I also swapped out the right angle pots for soldered lug pots incase there was some sort of flexing or pressure put on pcb by how pots were mounted in enclosure. But same result. I do have a 3pdt toggle i just remembered , so ill wire that straight into board and see what happens.

To clarify a few things i said, yes you could hook up jacks wrong even if pcb says IJ , OJ and i have done this in the past so i always put a little I and O right by the jacks on the interior of box with a sharpie, and i was using two mono jacks initially, but put in a stereo jack to just eliminate the a component and try to help isolate issue, because that was the consensus of what i found in the research i did was a power issue, so i swapped input jack from mono to stereo and added a battery clip, but just meant that i knew i had my jacks right, and when you have the bigger stereo jack in there its obvious that is ur input jack. Any way sorry for the rant but i read alot of post from newbies and there are alot of post explaining everything that has been rehashed over and over and when ive posted looking for help i always get replies that dont have anything to do with the problem im explaining , and people saying how i need to learn this or that before i even post.

im mainly just frustrated with this build, having a professional pcb and not being able to make it work, but i built this about a month ago and it worked fine first build.

[peterg]

Can you post more pictures? Top of board, foot switch wiring, jack wiring, etc. would help.

[Jdansti]

Peter good idea but he said his camera isn't working properly.

Fndr-You'll be fine. I see in a post above that you're not saying you didn't make a mistake. That's a good attitude because we all make mistakes regardless of our experience or knowledge. The most important trait one needs for building stompboxes is persistence.  You seem to have that, so you'll be successful in the end. 

Back to troubleshooting, it's probably time for the ol' voltage measurements. Read this thread: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=29816.0, follow the instructions, and give us your answers.

In addition, try testing the board without the 3pdt switch. Wire it like this:


Image stolen from Deadastronaut.

If it still doesn't work, then the problem could be a component, a problem with the PCB, pot wiring, jack wiring, soldering issues, or power supply issues. The voltage readings from the list on the above link will help narrow down the possible problems.

If the board does work when wired as shown above, then the problem could lie with the 3pdt switch or the wiring to the switch.

[Fndr8875]

awesome post , ill give that a try and see what i get. Thanks

[duck_arse]

I appreciate everyones responses, it is a little annoying at the nit picking in how I or others word things and to get responses that dont add anything to helpout.

fndr - by all means ask us questions, get mad and rant if you must, but don't tell us how to word our answers to your questions. I can think of a few people here that will read your above 2 posts and decide not to enrage you further, and not answer your posts at all. please don't perceive a tone to this reply, or take any offence, none is intended.

it has been known for a pedal to work in bypass mode, but at reduced effect output because the signal out wire has been soldered to the out jack sleeve instead of tip. this would/might explain why the pots seem to work and there is no volume.

and if you think the pedal is working, but just at low output level, that would suggest everything was good up to some point around getting the signal to the outside world, wire, switches, jax. and if you suspect he wire is bad, why? more to the point, prove it is bad or it isn't bad by using your multimeter, and checking from one end of the suspicious wire to the other end of same. there is no point in just "changing the wire" if it ain't broke.

rule things out, look for something else. now, you said it was working until you did something or other, so, what exactly changed, between works/good ad oh/dear? that would be the place to concentrate your efforts.

blast over.

[anotherjim]

Well, you say you've been testing continuity. If you suspect a broken wire - continuity test will find it. Use clip probes and pull & waggle the wire.
Are you using the DMM continuity test or resistance - or are you tracing voltage? Sorry if I've got this wrong, but there is a tendency in trouble shooting threads to be all about voltage, but having the same voltage in two places does necessarily mean they are directly connected. Also it's hard to know how much somebody knows or if they understand a term the same as somebody else does.
So, let's be certain that continuity test means having the DMM beep when there is low resistance contact between the probes, and it's carried out with the circuit power OFF. If your meter don't have the beep (often it's on the same setting as the diode test), put it on the lowest resistance range and touch leads to prove it reads close to zero.

Continuity testing isn't just to prove that 2 points are connected, it's also to prove that 2 points that should NOT be connected really are not. Always touch the probes together first to prove they are working before trying to prove no continuity.

If you're in doubt about continuity from, say, the input jack signal (tip) to the boards signal in, then plug a jack cable into the input jack and clip one meter lead to the far end cable tip. Now you should get a beep when you touch the other probe to either where the input wire connects to the board or the output jack tip (plug another cable into the output and prove the far end tip is connected). You can operate the footswitch to prove it switches between the 2 possible outputs. Similarly, you can test the output tip connects either to the pcb output or the input jack tip. Don't forget the footswitch should changeover between in and out jacks connected together OR to the pcb in & out wires.
Beware, that if using typical open frame sockets, the tip contact moves with a plug in and can short to nearby metal. That's why I recommend putting a cable in. After all, connecting to the cable is its job, so use a cable to test through.

Don't forget to continuity test the cable you are using! That's 3 tests - beep on tip to tip, beep on sleeve to sleeve and NO beep on tip to sleeve.

While you're at it, touch the free probe to the jack shells and any metal near the wiring - like the body of the footswitch, the enclosure if it's in one etc, to ensure the tip signals are not shorting to ground AND operate the footswitch to check its good in bypass or not.

If all of those continuity (and no continuity) tests work, then you're problem is unlikely to be with a jacks or footswitch.

[pinkjimiphoton]

never EVER EVER EVER use solid core wire in pedal builds. it has a tendency to break inside the insulation and make ya absolutley @#$%ing crazy trying to debug.

i would suggest checking your grounds too... it's also very common to reverse the connections somewhere by accident. i've built over 300 pedals over the years and i STILL @#$% stuff up.

i realize you're stressed, but folks here are trying to help you squash that bug, and there are necessary protocols in place that will save you and us a lot of effort and grief.

you'll sort it out. but wait til ya get stranded wire. solid is only good inside of pedals for some things if they will never move, but even then i find it to be much more susceptible to rfi and noise than stranded.

good luck, you'll get it.

also... check your input and output jacks... a lot of cheaper ones are shit and sometimes are shorted.

[deadastronaut]

@john...you owe me a tenner 

anyway..i hate to see people go bald ..

besides i was bored waiting for a mate to show up
so i knocked up a DIYLC  pcb/perf version.... (apologies to rully for layout ) ...

try this..i left it big so you could see the traces..

[Jdansti]

Well, either Fndr took a break or he didn't like some of our comments.  If you're still around, Fndr, let us know how it's going.