Toggle switch top washers. Alternatives?

[anotherjim]

It seems the manufacturers are never going to stop thinking those funny washers with the anti-turn tabs are a good idea and we must have them. I have always found them a complete PITA. Does anyone here make a little hole for the tab to go in?

I do cut the tab off, but the washers are often a bit too big anyway and make it hard to get legend text close enough on a cramped panel layout. Plain washers I find with ID big enough are still too big outside or plain steel which RLF.

Anyone got any sources for replacements? Nice nickel plated ones?

[davent]

I have correct sized and flat steel stainless ones purchased from Pedal Parts Plus (a few years ago). BLMS sell a flat washer for toggles as well.

http://www.bitcheslovemyswitches.com/#!/Smooth-Toggle-Washer-BAG-OF-10/p/45386117/category=5027543

http://www.pedalpartsplus.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=PPP&Product_Code=9010&Category_Code=SWI

[samhay]

>Does anyone here make a little hole for the tab to go in?

Yes. They fit nicely in a 1.5 mm hole, which you can scribe the position of with the washer once you have drilled the hole for the switch shaft.

[duck_arse]

>Does anyone here make a little hole for the tab to go in?

Yes. They fit nicely in a 1.5 mm hole, which you can scribe the position of with the washer once you have drilled the hole for the switch shaft.

me too. but the switches from tayda come with an anti-rotate washer which will spin on the threads, it is so shite, thin and filmsy.

and I do mean filmsy.

[edit: ] now reading the next post, I also use a sub-panel of some description for the extra hole drillings. the flat plastic blanks from old-style PC's optical drive covers are real good for the purpose.

[amptramp]

>Does anyone here make a little hole for the tab to go in?

Yes. They fit nicely in a 1.5 mm hole, which you can scribe the position of with the washer once you have drilled the hole for the switch shaft.

I have used a separate panel underneath the front surface with the holes drilled for the anti-rotation washers on the rear of the separate panel so they were locked in place and the panel was locked in place by multiple controls but the anti-rotation holes did not continue through the front panel so you could use chickenhead knobs and never see the holes.  Beware!  Most pots and some switches have a very short thread length, so pick your material thicknesses appropriately.  With the kind of abuse pedals get, I consider anti-rotation washers essential since a rotating pot body or switch body can rip the wiring apart.  Let me emphasize, ESSSENTIAL!

I lived in the world of MIL-specs for much of my career and MIL-E-810 gives you requirements for temperature, humidity, shock, vibration and other standard tests, but the best (and most politically incorrect) advice I was given was, design your equipment to be maintained by a guy with a bone through his nose.  If your equipment survives a guy who says "ook, ook", eats bananas and drags his knuckles along the ground, you are doing it right.

[davent]

You can get away with putting the nubbed washer on the inside of the enclosure, you don't have to drill the nub hole all the way through.

The row of three holes is for toggles, all the pots have anti-rot holes as well, without drilling through the enclosure. Done with a handdrill before i finally got a drill press.

Flat washers on top were added after the fact.

[anotherjim]

Well I have put them underneath before - and half drilled for the lug - hand drill.
But for me, it's a lot of faff. I've never had one come loose without the anti-turn. I only build for myself.

On an unpainted panel, I can get away with the serrated washer on top, but it would tear paint/vinyl.

I did have a fret of etched nickel-silver washers in various sizes from somewhere -  they're all used up now.

BLMS washers deserve to be shown...

[R.G.]

It seems the manufacturers are never going to stop thinking those funny washers with the anti-turn tabs are a good idea and we must have them. I have always found them a complete PITA. Does anyone here make a little hole for the tab to go in?

I'm guessing that you're right, they're never going to decide that leaving them off is a good idea. In all mains wiring, which is what the toggles are mostly rated for, the wiring will fail safety certification if the switch is not prevented from rotating. So the switch makers are going to continue making their real customers (not us...) happy by providing anti-turning washers.

[snarblinge]

just ran out of my supply of pedalparts plus and or Banzai washers, maybe some other pedal stores ones too, in any case, I didnt like the look of the BLMS ones (too thick) so went searching on Aliexpress, just ordered some of these, the calipers have my fav ones as m6x9x0.05 if I remember ill post an update when they finally get here.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002301164770.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.56115eaboeK80k&algo_pvid=7baa5d6c-24bf-4fa2-8355-fc22e6c9eed9&algo_exp_id=7baa5d6c-24bf-4fa2-8355-fc22e6c9eed9-2&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000019986952608%22%7D

[Rob Strand]

It seems the manufacturers are never going to stop thinking those funny washers with the anti-turn tabs are a good idea and we must have them. I have always found them a complete PITA. Does anyone here make a little hole for the tab to go in?

A lot of professional equipment used to have a custom punched metal panel which had holes where all those funky washers and pot lugs poke through and do their job.   The shafts just poke through a dress panel which goes over the front of the punched panel.    70's HiFi amps are a good example for this construction.

The issue for DIYer's is we always mount directly to the enclosure so none of those funky washer ever make sense.

I tend to use star washers and maybe use the supplied washer in reverse as a spacer.

Here's a DIY example,
https://electro-dan.co.uk/electronics/tdaamp/v3remake5.aspx


Notice all the screws for the switches are mounted to the base panel then the dress panel goes over the top.   The same goes for things like slider switches.   You never see the screws.

[anotherjim]

My beef is with the look of the supplied washers. Using the tabs as intended is fine but they should go underneath surely as it does with pots and rotary switches - then what goes on top? Not the star washer - it will damage paint. Where is the shiny dress washer to match?

[Rob Strand]

My beef is with the look of the supplied washers. Using the tabs as intended is fine but they should go underneath surely as it does with pots and rotary switches - then what goes on top? Not the star washer - it will damage paint. Where is the shiny dress washer to match?

The idea is if you use the dress-panel idea you don't need any washers or nuts hold the dress panel.   Everything pokes through holes.  The dress panel often had it's own mounting to the main chassis.    In some cases on test equipment you do see pot nuts and rotary switches holding the dress panel, basically adding stability.   For production it's good because you can build the whole unit with out the dress panel then you put it on at the end,  no front panel marks during assembly.

All I'm saying is that's where the all the funky mounting parts and lack of nice washers comes from.

As a DIY'er, I agree, it's all useless.   There was a short period here, maybe late 70s,  where things like toggle switches and 6.5mm jacks, 3.5mm jack, and some larger power toggle switches came with nice looking washers and nuts.

[mozz]

 I get lots of hardware at Albany County Fasteners. Will see what sizes they carry.

[John Lyons]

The Pedal parts Stomp switch washers and Toggle washers were great.
Small diameter and nearly hidden under the nut. But alas that source dried up.
The LMS (love my switches) washers area a bit too big (inner diameter)but doable for the stomp switches.
The Toggles are too wide (Outer diameter) for my taste as mentioned
in the original post. Lately I've just been using the nut only on top of the
pedal. Risky but Looks far better. Mainly just a matter of being careful tightening
them.
Anyone have a source for the smaller washers for either?

[snarblinge]

Hey John, thats the reason I bought this thread back from the dead. the aliexpress ones check out when I compare the PPP ones i already had, (I have 3 left) which I agree fit your description of thin and small. as I say i'll try to review when they show up. in a month

[amptramp]

Some switches come with dress nuts that are not hex, just knurled and these go on the outside.  There is a hex nut behind the panel and this is used to tighten the switch and the lockwasher is on the inside.  You set the knurled nut to where you want it for the optimum protrusion of the switch or pot then you can reef the hex nut in behind the panel.  If you have a washer on the outside, it can be thin metal.

And I stand by what I said five years ago - anti-rotation is essential.

[John Lyons]

Hey John, thats the reason I bought this thread back from the dead. the aliexpress ones check out when I compare the PPP ones i already had, (I have 3 left) which I agree fit your description of thin and small. as I say i'll try to review when they show up. in a month

Ah, ok. I see the link now.
I'll have to bust out the
calipers and see how they
measure. Thanks.

[anotherjim]

The funny thing with all the tab washers I have for these switches - is they have a smooth shiny "dress" surface only on the side you would see if you mounted them on top with the tab facing up. The other side of the washer is dull with sharp edges and this is the side you would see if the tab engaged in a hole.

[amptramp]

The funny thing with all the tab washers I have for these switches - is they have a smooth shiny "dress" surface only on the side you would see if you mounted them on top with the tab facing up. The other side of the washer is dull with sharp edges and this is the side you would see if the tab engaged in a hole.

You can mount an anti-rotation washer on the inside with the tab protruding into the outside world or on the outside with the tab stick into the inside.  In either case, it will be covered by a knob.  Not everyone makes anti-rotation washers with a shiny side and a dull side - some are shiny on both sides and others are dull on both sides.

[davent]

With the anti rotation washer mounted on the inside of the enclosure or even the tab on a pot, with the standard Hammond diecast enclosures, they're thick enough that there's no need to drill all the way through the enclosure. You need to drill deep enough to get past the drill-tip taper and will need to shorten the tab but no big deal and no unsightly through hole to hide/camouflage.