Best amp to test pedals for production?

[tenser75]

You know, historically, studios use YAMAHA NS-10 monitors because they are very "medium" quality and therefore if a song sounds good with them, it's gonna be better anywhere else...

I wonder if there is an amp that can be considered somehow like that... a bench tester of sort ...

I know people will reply to try with different amp/guitars but I was curious about this topic...

[thermionix]

I don't know about "best" but I think a Fender blackface/silverface type amp is a good choice because so many other amps have a similar (or same) input stage.  Conversely, at my buddy's guitar shop there is a Chinese-made VHT amp that seems to make every pedal sound like complete crap, the ones I build and commercial offerings alike.

[tenser75]

yes i was thinking the same and i do have a vintage blackface and a new deluxe reverb

although the majority of kids who could be potential customers use cheap solid state amps.... i remember when i was 16 i had a Marshall Valvestate and my beloved Shredmaster pedal... (we used to play heavy metal...)

what about an orange mini terror maybe? or something that as you said is very difficult to please but not totally crappy like the chinese you mentioned

[steveyraff]

yes i was thinking the same and i do have a vintage blackface and a new deluxe reverb

although the majority of kids who could be potential customers use cheap solid state amps.... i remember when i was 16 i had a Marshall Valvestate and my beloved Shredmaster pedal... (we used to play heavy metal...)

what about an orange mini terror maybe? or something that as you said is very difficult to please but not totally crappy like the chinese you mentioned

I would reckon ideally, different amps for different types of pedals. A modern voiced high gain pedal into an old tweed Fender seems like you are running two differently voiced devices into one another.

Funny you mention the Orange Terror. I use an Orange Dual Terror for gigging and sometimes test pedals with it. The problem with it is, it is basically useless with time-based effects as it does not have an effects loop. Reverbs, Modulations, Delays, they can get messy on it, especially with the drive channel cranked. I also have a little solid state Fender Deluxe 112 (not a Hot Rod Deluxe). I find this good because its very basic, and clean, with an effects loop - and it gives me an idea of how drive pedals sound when NOT being used with valve amps, as some people are buying drive pedals because they can't afford a good valve overdrive amplifier.

Just recently I bought a little Blackstar Fly 3 amp - the little 3 watt desktop thingy. Its obviously far from a high class amp, but I just leave it sitting on my pedal building workbench as its so convenient and handy for just signal testing, and quickly plugging in to check a newly finished pedal is working correctly.

The real answer is probably a range of different amps to see how each responds to a pedal; a solid state, a modern voiced valve, a vintage valve etc.

I guess a lot of people here are just really familiar with the sound of the amp in particular that they use to test their pedals, so they can judge from that benchmark. A little like what you mentioned about the NS-10's. In my recording studio I use KRK V8s and when I first opened, I noticed that when I gave my mixes a test in the car, or home stereo, they were lacking bass end. I've found the KRK's aren't as true as you'd think, and have slightly hyped low end, so I have to keep that in mind now when mixing. You just adapt like that. NS-10's are good for mixing because they are very true, and also aren't great sounding in that they add no sweetener. Make it sound good on those and it'll sound good on anything. I've Avantone Mixcubes for that purpose ... but I digress.

[garcho]

whatever crap behringer is making.

[Mark Hammer]

Fender Frontman 15.  Seriously.  If there is enough bass through an 8" speaker, then you know there will be enough bass through four 12s.  But you'll want to listen through four 12s as well, to know if the bottom/top balance is pleasing.

[slashandburn]

Fender Frontman 15.  Seriously.  If there is enough bass through an 8" speaker, then you know there will be enough bass through four 12s.  But you'll want to listen through four 12s as well, to know if the bottom/top balance is pleasing.

Ah speaker cone sizes. That would suggest that testing a pedal with 10 different types amp head but using the same speaker or cab each time would generally not be considered adequate testing. 

Mark, are you implying that speaker size is a more important thing to consider than whether the amp is solid state or tube based, or just reminding us not to overlook it as being of somewhat equal importance when it comes to testing since it hadn't already been mentioned?

[PRR]

> using the same .... each time would generally not be considered adequate testing.

Think of testing car interiors. You want to satisfy "all" buyers. Can a 4'11" woman reach the pedals? Can a 7'3" b-ball player get in??

Yeah, you can't make everybody happy. But try a w-i-d-e range of potential customers and their amps. Otherwise (especially on-line instead of a showroom) you'll have unhappy customers throwing pedals back at you.

[tenser75]

Thanks for all the replies, very interesting point of view... so let's rephrase the question maybe like:
say you had only 3 amps available which one would you choose as test?

marshall/fender black or silver/and maybe a solid state?

[blackieNYC]

I'd go with the fender - but that would not be very revealing on a metal pedal. Not all amps can do the chuggadah chug. A good metal pedal and a low wattage fender would usually be a poor match IMO. Dontchathink?
The NS10 studio monitors is an interesting point, but they are more about a reproduceable standard for consistency's sake when bouncing from one studio to the next.  Most engineers I know would call it an unfortunate series of events that led that particular speaker to become the standard for as long as it did. (Guitarists - don't mix with NS10s. "True" or not, your guitar that sounds big and loud on NS10s can disappear on other speakers.  Sneak some genelecs into the studio and everyone will want more mids in the mix !  Please don't share this tip with your drummer. Shh.)

Edit- during breadboarding, something low volume. And cheap/replaceable!

[cab42]

Fender Frontman 15.  Seriously.  If there is enough bass through an 8" speaker, then you know there will be enough bass through four 12s.  But you'll want to listen through four 12s as well, to know if the bottom/top balance is pleasing.

As far as I remember, there's a TDA2050 in a Frontman. I once built a tda2050 amp with a fetzer valve in front I used for test and practice. Almost any pedal I made sounded great with that amp, even those that was crap with my tube amp.

[tenser75]

somebody mentioned speakers size/number...
well that's a good point either:

I went to a friend of mind to make him test my fuzz pedal: I didn't know he was using a vibrolux with a 15" cone and a vintage hofner or so with pickup i guess around 6-7ohm and he play garage/brit.
The fuzz sounded pure shit, muddy and splatty while it was good with my deluxe reverb... duh!

[bool]

I (of course) don't know your exact listening environment and the gear you have, but it may be a good idea to shop around for a used sansamp or some line6 amp that can "mimic" certain "real" setups.

It's a given that going this route isn't going to let you check out the pedal-with-the-first-tube interaction, so you will have to compensate for that somehow - with some kind of a "classic" tube amp. Also you will have to obtain several different guitars with different pickup types, etc.

[slashandburn]

I (of course) don't know your exact listening environment and the gear you have, but it may be a good idea to shop around for a used sansamp or some line6 amp that can "mimic" certain "real" setups.

It's a given that going this route isn't going to let you check out the pedal-with-the-first-tube interaction, so you will have to compensate for that somehow - with some kind of a "classic" tube amp. Also you will have to obtain several different guitars with different pickup types, etc.

Thats not a bad idea!  I have a Line6 Spider (which I hate) which could be used as a very quick and dirty test for how it responds to various emulated amps.  One could probably also use guitar rig/amplitude or other amp modelling software in a pinch, but the lack of native guitar speaker going the DAW test route is a pretty obvious drawback.

Different guitar pickups is another really good shout. I'm at a disadvantage here, all my guitars are dual humbuckers. Even the Tele'. I might need to tap the coils on one of them.  My "to do" list just grows every time I log in here.

[bool]

... One could probably also use guitar rig/amplitude or other amp modelling software in a pinch, but ...

I don't think this will give you the proper interfacing that you need WRT guitar-to-amp signal path. Specifically, I don't have any good experience with computer-based software emus, while the two I mentioned before can give you some vague sense of "real-world" interaction - in a pinch. Of course, ymmv.

[Bill Mountain]

I use several throughout the prototyping process.

I use headphones and a small mixer, headphones and a small recorder, small 15W crate, 500W Bass Head, 100W Laney, V4, SVT, my friends rigs, studio recordings, etc...

It has to sound good on as many of those setups as possible before I try and charge people money for it.

But as a 1 amp solution I've been eyeballing those Roland Cubes.

[slashandburn]

But as a 1 amp solution I've been eyeballing those Roland Cubes.

For what little its worth, I had a Cube 30 (not the newer 30X) before I really got into pedal building. Never let me down and never did any of the weird stuff my line 6 spider2 is prone to.  Cracking little amp, took a lot of abuse. Only sold since I was desperate and no sucker would buy the Spider.

Wait, scratch that. Dont buy a cube! Get a Line 6 spider2.  I have one right here, do you a good deal?

[tenser75]

guys...

the thing is, this thread was just an excuse to find a reason to buy a new amp... or a pedal

i like the idea of the SansAmp

also like the idea of a Mesa Boogie which i never owned

[slashandburn]

guys...

the thing is, this thread was just an excuse to find a reason to buy a new amp... or a pedal

How about a Spider 2?   Mines is awesome. The built in effects genuinely have a mind of their own (look mum, no hands!), it gets confused and needs a factory reset every now and again and ever since i hamfistedly repaired one of the speaker cone's it's had this weird phasing thing going on if I crank it up much past bedroom volume.  It truly is a thing of wonder.

[blackieNYC]

I've wondered if sound samples of pedals should be recorded direct - no cab, sim or real- then, anyone can play out the sample thru their amp (via a proper DIY impedance interface connected to the headphone jack and level-adjusted). Stay with me.  People could get a better, although imperfect, idea of what a pedal would sound like. For their own purposes or - to give you feedback on or a recording of your pedal through their '64 tweed, Marshall stack, etc.  eh?