Boss DS-1 malfunction

[Mexicanhandgrenade]

Hi there,

So let me start: A few years ago I bought a brand spanking new Boss DS1. Everything was fine, but after that, I stopped playing for a few years. The pedal was stored, and I decided to use it last week. I Because I know very little about electronics I wrecked the pedal by using a wrong polarity adapter, and on top of that the adapter was 12v, instead of 9v. When I turned it on (with a 9v battery) it bypassed the sound with the pedal off, and no sound whatsoever with the pedal engaged. The LED did work...

After a quick Google search I came across an old topic from this website (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=42835.0). Therefor I took the pedal apart, replaced both the D1 recifier and the C23 capacitor (the rectifier broke in half, and the capacitor pretty much exploded). I'm not gonna lie, I was pretty proud afterwards, up until the point I gave it a test run. Now, with the pedal engaged, it makes the same sound as in bypass mode. Turning the knobs doesn't change anything.

Do you guys have any ideas on what the problem could be?

Thanks in advance!

[askwho69]

Hi there,

So let me start: A few years ago I bought a brand spanking new Boss DS1. Everything was fine, but after that, I stopped playing for a few years. The pedal was stored, and I decided to use it last week. I Because I know very little about electronics I wrecked the pedal by using a wrong polarity adapter, and on top of that the adapter was 12v, instead of 9v. When I turned it on (with a 9v battery) it bypassed the sound with the pedal off, and no sound whatsoever with the pedal engaged. The LED did work...

After a quick Google search I came across an old topic from this website (http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=42835.0). Therefor I took the pedal apart, replaced both the D1 recifier and the C23 capacitor (the rectifier broke in half, and the capacitor pretty much exploded). I'm not gonna lie, I was pretty proud afterwards, up until the point I gave it a test run. Now, with the pedal engaged, it makes the same sound as in bypass mode. Turning the knobs doesn't change anything.

Do you guys have any ideas on what the problem could be?

Thanks in advance!

Im afraid your Opamp is fried too. You need to build from Perf Board an 8 pin to 8 pin inline conversion. If you have a multimeter try to measure the oPamp's voltages.
But before that first things first, did you orient the Diode in correct position? And the the capacitor? Do you have picture?


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[askwho69]

As for the link, you need to change the IC Opamp, try to make a DIP ic Socket and 8 wires to connect the pin to pin orientation. Check the opamps "your ds1" specs to match the new opamp you have pin to pin. Try TL072, 4558 sounds bad in Ds1


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[Mexicanhandgrenade]

As for the link, you need to change the IC Opamp, try to make a DIP ic Socket and 8 wires to connect the pin to pin orientation. Check the opamps "your ds1" specs to match the new opamp you have pin to pin. Try TL072, 4558 sounds bad in Ds1


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Whoa! Easy!

Did I mention I know very little about electronics?

I was kind of afraid you we're going to say the opamp is fried, I just didn't want to believe it I paid special attention to the way the diode and capacitor should be oriented, so there is no doubt in my mind they are in the right way.  By the looks of it, replacing the opamp is quite a lot of work for a noob like me...

And thanks for replying! I appreciate it

[duck_arse]

welcome to the forum, Mexicanhandgrenade.

as who says, post some photos of your board, component side and copper side, so we might see if anything is burnt. then we will be asking you to provide us voltages, as per the page "what to do when it doesn't work" (located somewhere in the index page). we can't do anything without you giving us the volts.

good luck.

[askwho69]

As for the link, you need to change the IC Opamp, try to make a DIP ic Socket and 8 wires to connect the pin to pin orientation. Check the opamps "your ds1" specs to match the new opamp you have pin to pin. Try TL072, 4558 sounds bad in Ds1


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Whoa! Easy!

Did I mention I know very little about electronics?

I was kind of afraid you we're going to say the opamp is fried, I just didn't want to believe it I paid special attention to the way the diode and capacitor should be oriented, so there is no doubt in my mind they are in the right way.  By the looks of it, replacing the opamp is quite a lot of work for a noob like me...

And thanks for replying! I appreciate it

Let some electronic guys do the work then or try it your self , you will learn by attempting hard stuffs. It is very easy to replace an Opamp or transposing to SIP to Dip.



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[MrStab]

hi MHG, welcome to the slippery slope of stompbox dependency!

it bypassed the sound with the pedal off, and no sound whatsoever with the pedal engaged
...
Now, with the pedal engaged, it makes the same sound as in bypass mode. Turning the knobs doesn't change anything.

going by the symptoms, i'm with everyone else here: replace the op-amp. the switching seems to work fine now that you fixed the power section, but it's switching between bypass and a dead-end until the distortion section is fixed. good news is, it could've been worse!

electrolytic caps C14 and C15 should be replaced too, btw, though they don't seem to be causing any problems at the moment. if you fix the rest of the pedal, they could still fail eventually due to the reverse polarity.

if you plan on trying this yourself, i recommend getting used to desoldering braid or a solder sucker with an old, unwanted circuit board, if possible. or just pay a guy.

using this schem for reference: http://cdn.tonegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/Boss-DS-1-schematic.png

[Mexicanhandgrenade]

Hi again,

I've made some photos and shared them through OneDrive, I hope this link works
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlDY_ZrXA7QoibYKsWw0XC9RJLKJeQ

The fluff you see, is the remains of the capacitor I replaced. That stuff seems to go everywhere...

I've done my research about SIP/DIP and I prefer to keep it SIP (since it's easier and that seems hard enough for a noob like me). Which one do you prefer? I've been looking at some, but it seems quite hard to get my hands on any of them...

[Mexicanhandgrenade]

hi MHG, welcome to the slippery slope of stompbox dependency!

using this schem for reference: http://cdn.tonegeek.com/wp-content/uploads/Boss-DS-1-schematic.png

Thanks! I found a similar one, which was somewhat clearer. It has helped me quite a lot

[MrStab]

the only problem with SIP is the lack of choice, as most op-amps (of this scale) are DIP. i can also picture SIP chips being less secure in a socket, but i've only ever hard-soldered them. on the upside, it's probably a tiny bit easier to remove SIPs for the same reason.

i hope people read this stuff out of context sometimes. dip and sip: it's when you leave your nachos in the dip so long they become liquidised.

[Mexicanhandgrenade]

the only problem with SIP is the lack of choice, as most op-amps (of this scale) are DIP. i can also picture SIP chips being less secure in a socket, but i've only ever hard-soldered them. on the upside, it's probably a tiny bit easier to remove SIPs for the same reason.

i hope people read this stuff out of context sometimes. dip and sip: it's when you leave your nachos in the dip so long they become liquidised.

Lol, the context you provided doesn't make it easier to read

Could you try and tell me what I need to do in order to make it DIP? Because I've noticed that is can be quite hard getting my hands on a nice SIP...

[askwho69]

You can make a sip to dip by Perfboard , dip socket and 8 wires. Just orient the pin 1-8. Just search the njm3404 data sheet and look for pin out number and match with the Tl072 dip opamp. The best opamp
For ds1 would be OPA2134 and opa2604?


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[MrStab]

sorry bout that, too many assumptions!

depending on where you live, you could try Mouser.com. they have a lot of op-amps in SIP form, but the shipping might be a bit high for just one or two chips. i guess the choice is between easy but slow/expensive (SIP), or converting the circuit to take a DIP, which would be more difficult but faster/cheaper (because DIP op-amps are so much more widely available and cheaper).

what AskWho means is making a kinda adapter by soldering wires into all the holes where the original op-amp was, then wiring them up to a piece of cheap prototyping board (eg. perfboard or stripboard, also called veroboard) with the DIP on it. so you'd have this "daughter board" coming off of the main DS-1 board.

[MrStab]

if you imagine the pins as numbered 1-8 on either type of chip, each number does the same thing. here's how that would be wired (red and black indicate V+ and ground. or maybe it's brown instead of red, i'm colourblind!):



make sure you get it the right way round, though! as the other guys suggested, you can solder a thing called a DIP socket on there instead of an actual op-amp, which will allow you to swap different types of op-amp into that socket without any more soldering. then you need to consider how to stop that new board from flapping about.

IMPORTANT: i didn't draw it in the diagram because it depends on what kind of prototyping board you use, but if you use stripboard (with the horizontal lines), you need to make sure you cut the copper between either half of the DIP, or pin 1 will connect to pin 8 etc, and you don't want that. for perfboard, none of the holes are connected until you connect them, so you have to join each pin to the wire next to it with solder. you'll need to read up a little on the different types of board, tbh, too much to cover here.

has all that helped any?

[duck_arse]

I've made some photos and shared them through OneDrive, I hope this link works
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AlDY_ZrXA7QoibYKsWw0XC9RJLKJeQ

The fluff you see, is the remains of the capacitor I replaced. That stuff seems to go everywhere...

[as_usual] err, well, no, I couldn't see anything - then I turned off scriptkeeper and reloaded - still saw nothing, but there was now 64 blocked scripts. so I left. [/as_usual]

if there is any of that fluff left, clean it off. all of it. it will contain tiny bits of aluminium which may cause shorts.

[askwho69]

if you imagine the pins as numbered 1-8 on either type of chip, each number does the same thing. here's how that would be wired (red and black indicate V+ and ground. or maybe it's brown instead of red, i'm colourblind!):



make sure you get it the right way round, though! as the other guys suggested, you can solder a thing called a DIP socket on there instead of an actual op-amp, which will allow you to swap different types of op-amp into that socket without any more soldering. then you need to consider how to stop that new board from flapping about.

IMPORTANT: i didn't draw it in the diagram because it depends on what kind of prototyping board you use, but if you use stripboard (with the horizontal lines), you need to make sure you cut the copper between either half of the DIP, or pin 1 will connect to pin 8 etc, and you don't want that. for perfboard, none of the holes are connected until you connect them, so you have to join each pin to the wire next to it with solder. you'll need to read up a little on the different types of board, tbh, too much to cover here.

has all that helped any?

Nice explaination


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[Mexicanhandgrenade]

So DIP is basically the same as SIP,  only the holes dont line up?

[bluebunny]

DIP = dual in-line package, SIP = single in-line package

So two parallel sets of pins vs. a single line of pins:

   

[Mexicanhandgrenade]

I think I'm going for a SIP8 replacement.. Which one do you recommend?

I've found a NJM3404AL which would fit a fairly new DS-1. Any thoughts? EDIT: Oh nevermind, 20eu shipping... 

[MrStab]

EDIT: Oh nevermind, 20eu shipping... 

that's the problem. there's a higher risk of counterfeits, but maybe eBay could be cheaper for small quantities.

a different op-amp type may affect how the pedal sounds, by the way, but for the most part people can't tell unless some of the specs are vastly different.