octave down pedals

[cnspedalbuilder]

Hi, my band is 2 guitars and no bass. Right now, I'm using a whammy pedal to split my signal into a dry line to my guitar amp and a 1 octave down signal to a bass amp. The whammy is in bad shape, though and it always sounds a little out of tune. I'm looking for your thoughts on an alternative:
-I have the POG2, which is fine but it only has one output.
-I could build the madbean lowrider, with a buffer and line split. The lowrider looks pretty cool, but I dk how it tracks.
-I could buy a micro POG, which has a dry out
-I could buy a TC sub n up and mod it to have a dry out
-I could use the POG2 or sub n up with a second buffer/split pedal. I'm less inclined to do this because of pedalboard space, extra power cables, etc. But I can do it.
-other DIY or cheap off the shelf options?

Thanks in advance for your input.

[HeavyFog]

You should be able to calibrate the whammy if it a 4th, 5th, or drop version if its out of tune but if its in that bad of a shape i would go for the pog 2/ buffer split option. If you're concerned about space you could make a splitter buffer combo in something small like a 1590a or simmilar that way you wouldn't be be taking up that much space. You could almost sit it on top of the pog if your going for the set and forget aproach.

[anotherjim]

U-boat?
http://www.valvewizard.co.uk/uboat.html

[bloxstompboxes]

If you have a keyboardist, he/she could play bass like Ray Manzarek

[cnspedalbuilder]

No keyboardist. It's hard enough to schedule a practice for the 3 of us!

Anyone try the U-boat or the LowRider?

[cnspedalbuilder]

You should be able to calibrate the whammy if it a 4th, 5th, or drop version if its out of tune but if its in that bad of a shape i would go for the pog 2/ buffer split option. If you're concerned about space you could make a splitter buffer combo in something small like a 1590a or simmilar that way you wouldn't be be taking up that much space. You could almost sit it on top of the pog if your going for the set and forget aproach.

@heavyfog: You are totally right, and maybe that is the simplest option. The thing about the POG2 is that it requires a separate wall wart adapter and it's a big pedal that does way more than I need for this purpose. But it does track nicely. I cannot figure out why the hell they don't have a "dry out" on that pedal, since they have one on the MicroPOG. That is so lame.

[Mark Hammer]

Micro-POG or maybe one of those Mooer thingies is probably the simplest option.  What you want is a separate 1 or 2 octave-down option to mimic bass, that can be processed separately to be more of what you'd want a bass to do, and when you want guitar, simply hit bypass, and the dry out now has all the processing that you want a guitar to have.

Then, there are doublenecks, or 7/8-string beasts with separate pickups and outputs for the lowest strings.

[Processaurus]

Would this work?

Otherwise i would look for a digital octave down pedal, that can process you playing guitar chords, and make a single bass note, from the lowest note in the chord.  It sounds pretty bad having big, flubby bass chords playing along with guitar chords.

[robthequiet]

Best off would be a splitter of some sort, then you have the benefit of dual signal as well as the ability to run different effects on each chain. As long as you have two amps, that's a plus. Are you familiar with Animals as Leaders? Two 8-string guitars plus drummer. Very effective.

If you had a 7 or 8 string guitar, you could build a crossover box and bi-amp your guitar.

[bartimaeus]

It wouldn't be too hard to mod the POG2 for a dry out.

If I were in this situation, I'd build a buffered splitter box and run one of its outputs to the POG2 and bass amp. Lots of cheap, good sounding buffers, and you won't lose all of your treble like you would with passive splitter cables. Since the splitter would always be "on", you could stick it under your pedalboard or under one of your other pedals.

[cnspedalbuilder]

Thanks for all the input! I'm playing through a Fender Jag and also through a Bass VI that is tuned baritone b-to-b. I'm not sure my hands can handle an 8-string!

Sounds to me like buffered split is the winner. This should be easy--there are simple vero layouts and I have a PCB that'd do it. Would you recommend doing anything in the circuit to filter the signal to the POG2 line?

[bartimaeus]

You could throw on a simple lowpass filter, which may make it sound more like bass and might improve the tracking. Depends on how you like the sound of the POG2 into the bass amp, though. If you have no complaints about its tone, no need to filter it.

[potul]

Another option would be to use some special pickups

This one is applying an octave down only to the top 2 strings:

http://www.alittlethunder.com/

And this one is an added pickup that only gets signal from 2 string. You could route the top strings to an octaver (like the POG)

http://www.submarinepickup.com/demo/

[EBK]

A bit off topic, but Mike Kerr of Royal Blood does some amazing work going in the opposite direction, i.e., he plays a bass through several pedals to fill out guitar parts.  Example: https://youtu.be/4S8N1oXpKc8

[cnspedalbuilder]

You could throw on a simple lowpass filter, which may make it sound more like bass and might improve the tracking. Depends on how you like the sound of the POG2 into the bass amp, though. If you have no complaints about its tone, no need to filter it.

I think I will do this. I will probably build the AMZ buffer/splitter on vero and send one filtered line out for bass. @bartimaeus (or others): how would you set up the low-pass filter? I know there are simple filters like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/1st_Order_Lowpass_Filter_RC.svg/250px-1st_Order_Lowpass_Filter_RC.svg.png

But do y'all have suggestions for resistor and capacitor values that would optimize tracking for octave down signals?

[blackieNYC]

The behringer pitch shifter is as good a pitchshifter as any, believe it or not. You know the non-digital stuff like the boat will be a bit gnarly. Neither will be lacking in character. The Behringer and the PoG and their digital generation (so to speak) can handle chords pretty well. (Major triads are great, anything else has this tinkling bell sound that I kinda like. But they are polyphonic.)The old Boss PS2 and the analog staff can't. But, as has been often said of an actual fleshy bass player, "well, as long as a low note comes out of it."

[cnspedalbuilder]

Cool, I'll split the signal into the POG2 for now. Does anyone have suggestions for resistor and capacitor values that would optimize tracking for octave down signals?

[deepMago!]

Hi,
I would suggest you a Boss OC-3, it have a Range control that let's you to choose to add the octave notes only to lower frequency, very good for chords. I use that in my band, only guitar and drums. If you want you could search our album on spotify or soundcloud "Mercy Seat an angel's fate", in the record there's only one guitar, the bass is the guitar split on OC-3. If you listen the sound of the pure octave is pretty glitchy but mixed with guitar is very impressive.

Bye

[blackieNYC]

Cool, I'll split the signal into the POG2 for now. Does anyone have suggestions for resistor and capacitor values that would optimize tracking for octave down signals?

Try a 50k pot with a .01uf cap to gnd. It can rolloff at 300hz, 1khz, seems like a useful range. Or a .022uf.
From herehttp://www.muzique.com/schem/filter.htm

[cnspedalbuilder]

Just wanted to thank you all for your help. Here's the finished product:



It has a Veroboard AMZ Buffer/Splitter that sends one line out via a LowPass Filter, intended for the Octave Down. The other line is sent into the 3PDT and then to a GuitarPCB.com Tone Tweq Eq circuit, and then out to a separate guitar out line.

Thanks everyone!