doing cordwood, on perf, with DIYLC. much reading.

[duck_arse]

by request. [geeze, it needs some images.]

first you need to pick a circuit**, put it on the BB and finalise it, cause there'll be no sockets, then pick your set of parts, including alternative radials for your axials. there are some sub-minature radial electros getting about are only 4mm dia for a 10uF, perfect for this method. there is a variety of "5mm" diameters in axials, you really want the smaller 5mm. if we had 0.125" pitch board would be perfect, 0.1" is fine if you're careful, 0.156" would be extravagent/wasteful.

it's a long time since I started this project, so I'm not clearest on the reasons for some of the weirdness. in DIYLC you must first switch to the black/dark colour scheme, otherwise none of this will work. then you need to measure all your parts, there will be a load of parts needing to be  customised. and we work at a 2:1 scale [because I wanted angled leads sticking to the grid], so double the pitch of your chosen sized perf board, copy, paste and offset, so you have an upper and a lower board. name them such. parts on the underside of the upper board then have their lead angled down/left - parts on the lower board angle up/right - this is how we remember where we are.

dig in and cutomise your parts - I use plenty of colour-coding on mine, because I delete the part ref and blank the value, then copy that single part over and over. [I find the DIYLC text is never where I want it - it is easier to move and reallocate un-numbered parts - you also get to learn the circuit more thoroughly.] make sure to double all your diameters. the axial caps turn to circles because their leads are so short, which is a good thing.

so - put one of your resistors on the top left corner of the board, with the lead angled down, copy and paste it to the same board grid-ref on the lower board. now re-angle the lower parts lead to point up/right, select both halves and group. this is now the resistor you copy and paste, and it will be [should be] in the right relative positon each time. ** please note ** (in DIYLC 3.28.0) each time you paste a grouped thing, is ungroups, so after you've pasted and placed, group while they are still selected. have your whole set of parts-to-copy on the page before you start. note that your electros and diodes will have one end a different colour - make a note of their colour/polarity somewhere on the layout.

transistors are radial parts, so only connect to one or other board. radial parts mounted on the upper/underside ARE UPSIDEDOWN [mark them as such]. make very sure of your pinout. they could be top mounted, but really, what would be the point then? a radial part leaves "empty space" on the opposite board - keep out of that space. or use the space with another radial. so we know what's on the opposing board, we have some 'ghost parts' marking the place of radials. just edit your real parts colours to a consistent theme which says to you "placemarking - pay attention". then do a place and group, as with the resistors exampled above.

transistors - I couldn't big-up the TO92 package, only spread the pins to 0.2" pitch. also, I couldn't triangle the pins, which would make them fit much better with resistors and stuff, so they remain flat. make sure you test fit before you solder, they will foul on something.

laying out - I'm not going to tell you how to do a layout. start like you always do, plonk down a transistor on the lower board, lay a Vcc-coloured line and a ground-coloured line on the upper board. put a collector resistor and an emitter resistor, add lines on the lower board to connect them to the transistor, and then start shuffling and adding. have some perf handy to do test fits, you'll need them.

I use "18 AWG hook-up wires" for all my board traces, with alpha set low, usually 30% or less. most all the parts shown are at less than 40% alpha settings.

you will come to parts of the circuit that require linking a top track to a bottom track. just use a "jumper" and edit it to the same/similar colour as the traces it connects. these lines on the layout will also help with spatial awareness. make sure of your board co-ords, all your links should be the same angle. don't forget the oversized boards will allow fake connections and component placings to be made between real-life pads. pay attention to the startings, stoppings and lengths of your traces.



shown above [click for VERY bigger] is a partial/demo layout for R.G.'s "The JFET Doubler - A Simple Screaming Octave" shown at geofex, as illustration, I don't know if I'll take that layout any further. if anyone is interested enough, I can send them a .diy file with all the gunk in, so you need do less editing.


shown here is the full size superfuzz layout. it is very large.

if anyone is interested enough to try the build part, let me know, that's more typing and photos. I'll happily measure the dimensions of any axial caps sent to me. thanks for reading.


** the superfuzz is the ideal thing, because it is large enough to about break even in the build-volume conversion from flat, and because all the transistors string between Vcc and ground. the big muff might look a suitable candidate, but the collector bias will be a nightmare of wire links between top and bottom boards.

[digi2t]

Thanks so much duck. Guess I'll have some evenings to spend in front diylc now. 

I suppose that in diylc I could set the alpha of the upper board very low, and the lower board very high, offset them, and then anchor each component between them? Or would that get too messy? I'll have to try that tonight.

It would be so cool if diylc was like CAD, where you could revolve your assembly in 3D. Actually, I think I have Inventor kicking around somewhere. I'll have to see if there are component templates available for it.

including alternative radials for your axials

You mean alternative axials for your radials, no?

if we had 0.125" pitch board would be perfect

Does that exist? I can find 0.1 and 0.156.

[bluebunny]

I think a little bit of brain just leaked out my nose.      But I'm gonna have to try this anyway.  (Damn you, duck!)  I'm interested by Dino's idea of two offset boards with components strung between them.  I don't usually have the auto-sticky connection thing turned on, but I see how it might be useful here.

In the meantime, I'm going back to hypercube Sudoku...

[bluebunny]

BTW, how about 3D vero: top one east-west, bottom one north-south?

[antonis]

Why not about a 4D vero..

Many circuits include RC constants and - according to some guys - time is the fourth dimension...


P.S. Sorry for the spam, Duckie...

[duck_arse]

spam away, darl!

when it comes to vero, direct all questions to dino, please.

my first attempts at this I tried stringing parts from top to bottom, but it quickly became such a jungle I couldn't understand what was going on.  couldn't see the parts behind.

and no, I mean collect up a full set of axial caps, and add a spare part-set of radial caps for when that best solves the problem at hand. like a treble-bleed across an off board pot, or a b-c high killer on a fuzzface.

and I think I'll move on to a dr boogey instead of the jfet doubler. should be fun.

[digi2t]

And I thought the fourth dimension was smell. 

[bluebunny]

And I thought the fourth dimension was smell. 

Ah, you're confusing "past" with "passed".   

[digi2t]

And I thought the fourth dimension was smell. 

Ah, you're confusing "past" with "passed".   

Probably. As I age, confusion reigns supreme. It's probably my fifth dimension. Or dementia. One of those two. Can't remember which.

[Kipper4]

I struggle with one dimension.

I finks a bit of my brain leaked too.

[digi2t]

OK, I've tried a simple circuit, just to ease into it. I present... Cordwood Fuzz Face.



Yeah, it's dense to the eyes. I couldn't see myself building this without having the laptop with the diylc on the bench so I can highlight components for placement.

Now... volume-wise, does it REALLY use less space inside an enclosure? Dunno. Sure does look cool though.

[duck_arse]

ahh, see, I said it wouldn't work if you didn't switch to dark. how come LOWER BOARD is above? madness! mmm, and no mention that Q2 is upside down .....

if you shift your 20uF 1 hole more to the right, you'll get a much more comfy fit. moving the 8k2 left one, to the edge, will ease the fit on the 2u2. (if you make your traces different colours, they will pop-out as to where they start and stop.) and yes, I have it on the PC while I solder, can't waste all that ink on printing.

but, well done, and join the club.

[digi2t]

ahh, see, I said it wouldn't work if you didn't switch to dark. how come LOWER BOARD is above? madness! mmm, and no mention that Q2 is upside down .....

if you shift your 20uF 1 hole more to the right, you'll get a much more comfy fit. moving the 8k2 left one, to the edge, will ease the fit on the 2u2. (if you make your traces different colours, they will pop-out as to where they start and stop.) and yes, I have it on the PC while I solder, can't waste all that ink on printing.

but, well done, and join the club.

Yes, you're quite correct about the lower/upper boards thing. That's why, to avoid confusing myself, I labelled them. In the end though, it's like the wire frame cube illusion; you stare at it long enough, and you can't tell which corner is closer or farther from you. Horses for courses.

As for fitting, since I don't use axial components, I would have to set the proper dimensions as defaults in diylc. Then I would have a much better perspective as to what will fit where. As it stands now, only my resistors, non polar, and radial caps are set. In any case, even with my vero layouts, I get caught on occasion, and I need to shift things to fit. This does have the advantage of being able to mock up before soldering anything. You could use a "third hand" to hold the upper board, and hang your components in place by kinking the leads. If something needs tweaking, a redraw is easy at this point. If everything looks good, solder the upper first, flip it around, solder the bottom, clip the leads, and add the jumpers.

Now... mounting in the enclosure. Uh, yeah... haven't got there yet. 

The transistor on the "upper board" is indeed upside down, so I labelled the pins accordingly. Since I was thinking that this was pad-per-hole on one side, I couldn't see it being any place else. Although, for someone that's going at it for the first time, and using double sided board, it may create confusion. Yes, it should be noted.

Shame that I'm not a fan of Fuzz Face's, otherwise I would build this. I need to find another circuit that I fancy to cut my teeth on. One that I haven't build yet, but not to complex.

Thanks for the membership duck. Don't think I'll be doing a Ludwig Phase II any time soon though.

[rutabaga bob]

"Don't think I'll be doing a Ludwig Phase II any time soon though"

Now, we all know you're a guy who likes a challenge...   

[digi2t]

"Don't think I'll be doing a Ludwig Phase II any time soon though"

Now, we all know you're a guy who likes a challenge...   

Yeah, well, why don't I start by trying to lick my balls first. If that works out, I might move on to the Ludwig. 

[duck_arse]

I'm a relative newcomer to perfboard, but I can't say highly enough for those double sided plated through boards. I stitch my copper tracks (with real copper) before I put the parts, which takes extra time but cuts down on placement errors. and it allows the top board to slide up and down enough to get the upper leads in, soldered and clipped, with one or two of the full length lower leads bent to limit the stroke length.

the lower lead can have a slight hook end-bent to allow easier entry-angle, and the top lead clipped to "long enough". and yes, you need something to hold one board so you can wave the assembly about over your head trying to get the light and the magnifying glass into the right place to see what you are doing, and for general handling without complete destruction. the sliding up and down allow the parts to find their happy places without strain, as well.

all in all, I had a fair bit of fun (I think is the right word) doing this method. it was surprisingly trouble free. now I just need a set of caps for the doctor.

[rutabaga bob]

I am wondering, as I'm sure are others (the whole 2 of them  ), just how much space this takes up inside an enclosure compared to a reg'lar old circuit.  A photo would be illuminating.

[duck_arse]

well, foghorn, I can only show the pics in the bukket at the moment, cause it'll be months before I'm finished metalwork (unless a contest is called) and mounting. you should be able to get a comparative scale idea like from the pics. the superfuzz board I built previous was a full 24 X 10 perf, using 1/8W resistors, so I'd almost say smaller than a 1/4W build.

the bukket:
http://imgur.com/a/gtfTy

the other superfuzz:
http://i.imgur.com/MP8VEEK.jpg

[rutabaga bob]

Thank you, kind sir!

[digi2t]

Hey duck, are those two board squeezed down as far as they'll go, or do all the leads have space above and below? I'm just wondering if you go to the limits of the largest component, if you could save a tiny bit more space that way.