presenting the Schizoid Face

[pinkjimiphoton]

stupid face and photon face in one. use a dpdt and stomp between treble boosted sweeter fuzz, or full gospell fuzzface gnarl

both circuits can be heard in the last two stupid pedal trick videos

[pinkjimiphoton]

[pinkjimiphoton]

noticed some mistakes (for a change)
this should be good to go, schematic and vero layout, shown so ya can use a stomp switch (with bicolor led, i suggest green for full on fuzz and blue for the more overdrivey stupid face) to change flavors. or ya could just use spdts and have more versatility.
have fun

[TejfolvonDanone]

The power supply protection circuit looks quite redundant.
If you opt into the series protection with the supply filter you lose a lot of supply headroom (around 1-1.2V).
If you put R8 in place of the D1 and leave the place of R8 as a short you have less supply loss and easier time to build it on the PSU socket.

[anotherjim]

That's up for argument. You could equally say that D2 is redundant, since the chance of a reverse polarity after D1 is remote. Maybe a possible "extra" is to put R8 first going in, followed by the reverse D2 followed by D1 in series BUT D2 is a LED with high Vf. A reverse (or AC) power warning LED, which will tell you what's wrong.
Pick a 1A Schottky for D1 if volt drop bothers you, BUT, a little volt drop isn't that harmful to this circuit - there are people out there who select low voltage batteries for their FuzzFace to get that old blue zinc-carbon EverReady sound!

Thanks to PJP for posting this stuff, if I ever build a silicon FF, I will certainly give this version a shot.

[EBK]

Thanks to PJP for posting this stuff, if I ever build a silicon FF, I will certainly give this version a shot.

+1

[TejfolvonDanone]

BUT, a little volt drop isn't that harmful to this circuit - there are people out there who select low voltage batteries for their FuzzFace to get that old blue zinc-carbon EverReady sound!

That's a valid point. I just wanted to point out that as it stands the double protection has no particular advantage.

[Gus]

I would leave C1b .047uf cap in all the time and switch the 2.2uf in parallel with one side of the 2.2uf connected the .047uf and the other side switched.
OR use a >=1meg resistor in series with 2.2uf attach one end of the resistor to one side of the .047uf and the other side of the cap of the pair to the other side of the .047uf USE a switch to short the >=1meg resistor this wiring will reduce pops

you do not need C4

As posted before you don't need D2

Try a 100uf or greater for C3

What is the switch by R7 about?

Its just another FF so what's up with the commercial use refused? It is not worth getting upset about. If you don't want people to copy it don't post. That's what I do now with my microphone builds.
Switched input caps have been done
Emitter resistor at Q1 has been done
Resistor between Q2 emitter and gain control has been done


http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112341.msg1036524#msg1036524
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=114343.msg1061116#msg1061116
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=111894.20
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=114210.msg1059856#msg1059856
http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/gusFuzzFace.gif

[pinkjimiphoton]

BUT, a little volt drop isn't that harmful to this circuit - there are people out there who select low voltage batteries for their FuzzFace to get that old blue zinc-carbon EverReady sound!

That's a valid point. I just wanted to point out that as it stands the double protection has no particular advantage.

no particular advantage, UNTIL it gets plugged in backwards and the diodes keep the circuit from taking the hit. happened to me last nite in fact while trying to stuff this 10 lbs of shit in an 8 lb box. around 3 am when i was done building up the proof of concept the last thing i did was add power supply filtering, after it was boxed and rocked.
somehow, probably cuz i was tired, i turned the power filter cap/assembly backwards... probably because as i had built it the ground side was the longer of the two. ooooops.

turned it on, loud hum.... wtf??  sure enough, i had put it in backwards. ooops. swap two wires, good to go. didn't blow any electros, didn't hurt the circuit at all. back in business.

further, this is a silicon emu of a ge fuzzface. it is designed to run off an average power supply, usually around 9.6v going in.
1 .7 voltage drop from the series diode brings it down to around 8.5v. the 100r resistance has barely any effect and works as a choke (not really, but you can replace a choke with a resistor and it helps bring noise down) and filter to keep the psu very clean.
this is wicked hyper important running a fuzzface on ac. these things are wicked prone to oscillation and rf and emi noise. hence the large value bleeder cap and the huge filter cap.
in pnp fuzzfaces i tend to use 1000uF for the power supply and that helps eliminate the noise issues associated.

most of us "old guys" will tell ya that we used to use dead carbon zinc batteries in our FF's to get the best sound. 
this also works with the stock biasing to brown out the pedal a little more.

i can a/b it with any of my ge pedals and it's damn near impossible to tell the difference.

last nite i brought the input cap up to 390n. that made it even closer to the old school tone.

i don't give a shit about right or wrong or a dang volt. i just want it to sound right.

[pinkjimiphoton]

I would leave C1b .047uf cap in all the time and switch the 2.2uf in parallel with one side of the 2.2uf connected the .047uf and the other side switched.

i am not you. that would not and does not sound the same doing it that way. the entire point of this particular box is it has two related but different circuits accessible with the flick or stomp of a switch.

OR use a >=1meg resistor in series with 2.2uf attach one end of the resistor to one side of the .047uf and the other side of the cap of the pair to the other side of the .047uf USE a switch to short the >=1meg resistor this wiring will reduce pops

if wired as a footswitch, actually i would have 4.7m resistors if needed to prevent pops, but i have no pop problem switching the two circuits. the input to the circuit from the footswitch to the mode switch is shielded, and has a 4.7m resistor to ground  at the switch, there is no "popping"  as the resistor is already there to ground. i didn't draw the input and output wiring. but that's already been addressed, and adding more resistance will change the tone and response, and is not part of a basic fuzzface, which is part of the rest of the reason for this excercise.
it is almost a stock FF circuit as shown, with the addition of three simple resistors. yes, it lets you choose input caps, but again, that is because one side is the stupid face, the other the photon face. together, they are the schizoid face.  i have no interest in adding more stuff to a circuit that it really doesn't need.

you do not need C4

yeah, i do. without it, it is prone to high frequency oscillation. it is there for a reason. tho the value can vary from about 120p to .02 or so if ya want. take it out and dime it, and without it it will likely start to squeal. so, yes, it does need c4.

As posted before you don't need D2

see my other reply. it is there for a reason, and intentional. i want this thing as bullet proof as possible.

Try a 100uf or greater for C3

no. just, no. that would change the entire response and tone of the fuzzface. i don't need these
"improvements". try the @#$%in circuit first and listen to it before deciding you can "improve" it.
you likely cannot, i've built almost every sili fuzzface i have come across and they all pretty much suck.
this one doesn't.  i'll leave it as is, thanks. 100u would cause issues, including too much bass gain which causes motorboating issues. anything bigger than arguably 47u is too big. 22 u is just about perfect.

What is the switch by R7 about?

it is to allow switching from the stupid face circuit (shown) to the photon face circuit (if the switches were on the other pole) the sound and response of the two circuits is NOT the same. the stupid face is cleaner and more treble boosted when rolled back, the photon face is more classic dank fuzzface. it could be wired on one switch or split to two for more versatility, but the idea was both circuits in one. a single stomp or click gives you either.

Its just another FF so what's up with the commercial use refused? It is not worth getting upset about. If you don't want people to copy it don't post. That's what I do now with my microphone builds.

what makes it different from other fuzzfaces is the implementation. it is the location and value of the parts. i see the same stuff repeated over and over. this is subtly different. i never encourage commercial use of ANYthing i do. it is intended for the diy community only to "rip off" my stuff. there's a big diff between john q stompbox forum builder and some asian cat building a billion of 'em and selling then for 20 bux on ebay. if it happens, it happens, but i am not gonna encourage it.  bad karma is bad karma. i'll leave it at that.

Switched input caps have been done
Emitter resistor at Q1 has been done
Resistor between Q2 emitter and gain control has been done

you are not quite getting the subtlety of the circuit gus, but that's ok. go watch the two videos and see if you think the two fuzzes sound the same. yep, switched input caps have been done. this switches the input caps, and at the same time switches the function of the fuzz pot. making the ground side of the 22u cap off the fuzz pot connect to ground or to a resistance to ground changes the tone AND the function. in addition to the amount of fuzz, it works as a filter as you turn it down so pretty much the entire range of the fuzz pot is useable in stupid face mode. in photon face mode it is stock  FF sound.

most people try and adjust for biasing by messing with the C resistors. but you can mess with the e resistors too. in this case, with an emitter follower, you have a couple things to consider. one, a small resistance (the values are wicked important.... if they don't match the hFE of the transistor used, the thing will not and cannot clean up right as you roll the guitar down) will do two things.. it will lower the gain slightly from the "full on" of stock, but it also changes the impedance of the circuit a little bit too.
i've messed with the c resistors til my brains dripped out, and none of 'em work the way people generally profess.
so i went the other approach , and left the c part of the circuit intact (funny thing is originally it had all kindsa trimmers and stuff) and i found the stock fuzzface values to work the best.  so once messing with the e resistance i added, it started becoming
real quickly obvious i was onto something slightly different. i tried various values of resistors, and found that with the particular  values i stated it was easily repeatable with the whole bag of transistors i have for it.
i also found that if using a q about double the gain of what i chose, i could literally double the e resistors vaalues and get it right in the ball park. no real math required. say i gotta 5088 around 450hfe. if i go with 470r for q1 and 100r for q2's emitters it will still bias up nicely and sound ok. but the particular gains i'm using work perfectly with the values posted.
if i go above the values, it starts to get too harsh and lose tone, and if i go below them, it doesn't bias up right and the interaction of guitar and fuzz goes down in quality.
after 12 years of fuzz building, this is the ONLY silicon fuzzface i've built that didn't suck. some were ok, but none of 'em were RIGHT.
and the whole point is all it takes is three resistors to make it happen. two, really. the e resistors are the most important part. floating the fuzz cap you'll either love or hate.  it makes for a "clearer" fuzzface where you can tell what guitar you're using, or what pickup.
that's the stupid face.

the photon face is more of a traditional fuzzface.

both clean up from the guitar as they should.

both sound very very close to germanium.


so..... that's why and how it works. i'm no ee, just a monkey with a breadboard, and yeah, nothing new here except the values.


but the devil is in those couple details.

try it and see.

[pinkjimiphoton]

final revision of this particular circuit.

change the .047 cap (c1b) to .39

add a 50-150p snubber cap between c and b of q2

this is verified... the circuit, the vero layout etc. it fits on a 8x9 piece of vero,
and if you're creative, will fit in a 1590a.

that said, with a 1590b or 125, you can make the second switch a stomp switch instead which may be useful.

the nice thing is, the stupid face plays great with humbuckers, and the photon face plays great with single coils. so one fuzz can handle both kinds of guitars.

i DO build them as standalones, but i thought it would be neat to put it all in just one box.

so here ya go. this thing sounds great. i gotta nice compliment from mictester on FSB. he said i was right... it don't suck. good enough for me.

[rutabaga bob]

Not to be anal,  but the position of C6 on the schematic does not match the position on the vero.
Looking forward to building this!

[pinkjimiphoton]

yes it does. look again. it's between c and b of q2 on both. it probably looks weird cuz you missed the track cut behind c1a on row d, hole 4.

[rutabaga bob]

What I'm seeing is that on the vero it is directly connected between c and b...on the schematic, it is connected on the other side of the collecter resistor.

[pinkjimiphoton]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112341.msg1036524#msg1036524

this is a gus circuit, not a fuzzface.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=114343.msg1061116#msg1061116

also a gus circuit, not a fuzzface

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=111894.20

again, a gus circuit, not a fuzzface.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=114210.msg1059856#msg1059856

http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/gusFuzzFace.gif
[/quote]


again, gus circuits. not a fuzzface. maybe in part fuzz face derived, but they are not fuzzfaces. mine uses the stock values of the original circuit, other than the couple added parts. i've built the gus face. not for me. i've built the sili face, the easy face, and god knows how many others.

mine sounds acts and is a fuzzface. your circuits gus, while brilliant, are not the same thing. and the values you use in the circuits you just cited aren't the same, where you do use e resistors the values are huge compared to mine and there's a lot more stuff added in.
that's all fine and good, but is it still a fuzzface at that point?
does it still sound and act like a fuzzface at that point?

so far, in my experience with all the si fuzzfaces i have built and experimented with, the answer is no.

no offense, but if i wanted to build the gus circuits, i would build them. they sound fantastic, but not necessarily like what i am looking for. they are different considerably from what i did. i am more than happy with my simple circuit, and the people who have tried it live with my rig or have breadboarded it have found it to be NOT YAFF. ymmv.

but if i change all my shit as you suggest, it becomes gus circuits not pink jimi circuits. and as i said above, my intention isn't to build gus circuits.

its to make a silicon fuzz face that sounds enough like germanium, and cleans up and interacts properly with the guitar with minimal circuit changes. that's what i did.
it's also repeatable, with bog standard readily available parts and has only 3 (4, now) parts different from the original circuit, other than increasing the output cap to 47n from the stock 10n, and allowing the ability to switch between two variants...

one damn near a stock FF, and one with some very slight mods.

this is, for all intents, two different pedals in one box. it's all in the schematic. all ya gotta do is look at it to see what's what.

the caps aren't switchable like a gus circuit. you have it set up to switch two input caps. yep. i've done it, you've done it, and a thousand others have.

but look at the other switch and what it's doing. this is changed with the input caps and completely changes the sound and response of the unit from one to the other.

it's really not rocket science. but it don't suck like every other si ff circuit i've tried.

perhaps it would be easier to present one circuit or the other instead of both?

i didn't think that would really be necessary to even the newbies here on the forum.

mine still sounds like, and acts like, a classic ge fuzzface minus the temperature issues, and minus the oscillation prone to silicon ones.
it is almost exactly the original circuit, or as close as i could get.

never mind the psu filtering. that's how i do it, anyone is free to do it any way that makes them happy.

end of story. stick a fork in me.

gus, serious man, your circuits are about as in common with mine as apples and orangutans. they aren't the same, and if i followed your suggestions, which i have seen restated so many times it makes my ass hurt, it would be a gus circuit, not a jimi one.

i'll stick with my own. peace.

rock on.

[pinkjimiphoton]

What I'm seeing is that on the vero it is directly connected between c and b...on the schematic, it is connected on the other side of the collecter resistor.

good catch bro. i don't think it matters really, the function is still the same pretty much. but i will fix it and reup... thanks for catching that bro! rock on!

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks to larry ,,,, errr,,,
rutabaga bob for catching yet another mistake.

this should be 100% on the money now... thanks bro!!

[TejfolvonDanone]

BUT, a little volt drop isn't that harmful to this circuit - there are people out there who select low voltage batteries for their FuzzFace to get that old blue zinc-carbon EverReady sound!

That's a valid point. I just wanted to point out that as it stands the double protection has no particular advantage.

no particular advantage, UNTIL it gets plugged in backwards and the diodes keep the circuit from taking the hit. happened to me last nite in fact while trying to stuff this 10 lbs of shit in an 8 lb box. around 3 am when i was done building up the proof of concept the last thing i did was add power supply filtering, after it was boxed and rocked.
somehow, probably cuz i was tired, i turned the power filter cap/assembly backwards... probably because as i had built it the ground side was the longer of the two. ooooops.

turned it on, loud hum.... wtf??  sure enough, i had put it in backwards. ooops. swap two wires, good to go. didn't blow any electros, didn't hurt the circuit at all. back in business.

further, this is a silicon emu of a ge fuzzface. it is designed to run off an average power supply, usually around 9.6v going in.
1 .7 voltage drop from the series diode brings it down to around 8.5v. the 100r resistance has barely any effect and works as a choke (not really, but you can replace a choke with a resistor and it helps bring noise down) and filter to keep the psu very clean.
this is wicked hyper important running a fuzzface on ac. these things are wicked prone to oscillation and rf and emi noise. hence the large value bleeder cap and the huge filter cap.
in pnp fuzzfaces i tend to use 1000uF for the power supply and that helps eliminate the noise issues associated.

most of us "old guys" will tell ya that we used to use dead carbon zinc batteries in our FF's to get the best sound. 
this also works with the stock biasing to brown out the pedal a little more.

i can a/b it with any of my ge pedals and it's damn near impossible to tell the difference.

last nite i brought the input cap up to 390n. that made it even closer to the old school tone.

i don't give a shit about right or wrong or a dang volt. i just want it to sound right.

D1 and D2 both both has the same purpose: to protect the circuit from reverse polarity. 1 protection is enough. 2 is 1 more than you need. If 1 did not work for you, you wired it in a wrong way.
If you get D1 out and replace D1 with the 100r resistor R8 will have 2 purposes: filter when the supply connected in the correct way, and be a current limiting resistor when it isn't. The supply to the circuit (after R8) will be higher by around 0.7V which is not necessarily a bad thing.
If you leave out D2 you have both the reverse protection and the supply drop by 0.7V (after R8).

I don't give a shit about you thinking something sounds not so good as the others. I give a shit when you don't even look to try to understand what we are trying to tell you. So we try to be helpful and if you don't need any advice then this site is not really for you.

[pinkjimiphoton]

lol, i understand what you're trying to tell me. quite clearly.

i know it's redundant. i've also had people advise me to do it this way in the past. i am FAR from any kind of EE man.
all i do is use my ears and swap stuff around up and down until it sounds good. i gotta fair ear for fuzzes after all these years of playing with them and building them. it's cool, you can relax, i get your point.

not saying you aren't right at all, i just already built the thing and tend to present it as i did it and people are free to rearrange or modify values or whatever they want.

that's why i GIVE whatever i can to the forum. sorry, but i am not interested so much in making other people's circuits, or them trying to get in a pissing match over doing something similar in the past in different circuits.

my only interest in this is making a bloody @#$%in good - for a change - silicon fuzzface that sounds good and acts right.

i see everyone adjust the bias via the c resistors. that's fine, but you can also @#$% with the emitters and get surprising results a lonnnng way from the time honored values people usually suggest.

this ain't my first rodeo here either. that's irrelevant really. i put it up so people can try it and see if it works for them too. if ya have a problem with that, hey, whatever. that's irrelevant to me as well.

i've been contributing to this forum stuff for many years now in various ways, so forgive me for trying your patience. if ya don't like my attitude, that's fair, too.

any suggestions people make they are encouraged to do on their breadboards. when i put this up it's already been built and running, which means my preferences for components is what i found to be the best compromises with tone interaction and stability.

so my suggestion is build yourself one up on your breadboard, and see if it works for you. if it does, cool, enjoy. if you choose not to, that's fine too. if you build it and you don't like it, you are free to implement whatever floats your boat. that's fine too.

but i presented a schematic and even a verified tiny vero layout for it, including how to choose two very different flavors of the same circuit in one tiny 1590a. people can do whatever they want with it. or do nothing at all. i posted it cuz it works for me and the friends who have played thru mine and already built their own for themselves and i figured someone else may benefit from it.

i didn't come for a crowd sourcing lesson or some one telling me to @#$% off. so... indeed... have a GOOD day.