Orange Squeezer Troubleshoot

[jrios001]

Hi guys, im trying to build the orange squeezer from the tone report mag: http://www.magazine.tonereport.com/mag/0597404001488576457/p24
I am not getting any sound out of it, Bypass works and the board is getting input signal and power:

Q1 or 2? lol:
G 0.0
S 1.44
D 1.1

G 1.50
S 2.03
D 9.4
(Sustain knob changes these values)

IC

1 = 8.76 2= 5.54 3=.20 4=0 5=9.40 6= 8.66 7=8.66 8=0.0

https://goo.gl/photos/dWNK9PfDxF84AyQ5A
https://goo.gl/photos/c8XTMtDB1JxgPPAu9

[brazdj]

Hello!

I started the same project a while ago and ended up looking at other squeezer schematics to sort of do a sanity check.  I married the tone report one with the guitar gadget schematic (they use a 100k trimmer instead of the sustain pot and fewer overall caps and resists).

But!  Same issue as you sort of... I get sound, but it is insanely noisy. I'm breadboarding it so I don't have to worry about soldering at the moment.  It seems that the music comes through but is buried under a wall of noise and hiss.  The noise increases when my volume knob is turned CCW.

Have you had any luck with your pedal yet?

The voltages I am getting are pretty much on par with what you posted. 

Overall it sounds like the cap resistor combos are creating a filter allowing only high frequency stuff to get through and are being amplified by the JFETs.  I'm still working out what all the objects truly do.  At least troubleshooting gets you really thinking!

Let me know what you have found!

[BetterOffShred]

Not sure if it will help, but there is thus layout:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=112339.0
Which I found from some guys Pintrest about it, and I guess it works so maybe it's worth comparing to what you have going on there.
-Brett

[GGBB]

There was another thread about this:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=118047.msg1098038#msg1098038

[Bishop Vogue]

Just my 2 cents, jrios001, but the orange squeezer is not worth the time to build.  It is *extremely* subtle - like - is it on? - subtle.  I highly recommend the DOD280 comp though.  Don't pull your hair out for this one - just not hair well spent.

[stallik]

Sorry to disagree but mine is not subtle in the least. I have it set to dampen down those CERCHANG chords and it helps with funk as well. It's also relatively colourless.

Unfortunately, I built it a long time ago using a bought pcb so I'm not much help with the circuit origins though. I could post pics of both sides of the board if that's helpful to anyone

[GGBB]

I'm with Kevin - the Orange Squeezer is not a subtle effect. But, because of the design, it will depend on your pickup's output how much compression effect you will get out of it, as well as depend on how you set the FET bias. And of course this can be modded to suit your own taste and guitar, or made adjustable. My Orange Smoothie variation is capable of dialing in anything from very subtle to very heavy compression, and remains quite "colourless" as Kevin put it.

Comps are largely a matter of personal preference - optical, OTA, FET and other designs all have their own fans.

But back to the original topic - don't build the Tone Report project. The external "sustain" control will just disappoint and frustrate you because it is actually the FET bias adjustment which is not meant to be external and will either turn off sound completely or make it distorted over most of its range (there's only a small sweet spot where it will actually work properly). I think the author of the article Nicholas Kula couldn't possibly have built one himself that way or he would never have suggested using the bias adjustment as an external sustain control. Either that or he just doesn't know what he's writing about and was using second hand info.

[brazdj]

Thank you all for the insight!  If I may borrow a little bit more of your time, does this schematic seem to be good enough (I know it says it is a replica, but that is what Kula pretty much said too). http://generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_osq_sc.pdf

Also in the linked schematic, the voltage connection on the drain of Q1 doesn't clearly indicate a 9v connection. From what I have seen from other schematics I assume that this drain connects directly to the 9v.

[GGBB]

Thank you all for the insight!  If I may borrow a little bit more of your time, does this schematic seem to be good enough (I know it says it is a replica, but that is what Kula pretty much said too). http://generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_osq_sc.pdf

Also in the linked schematic, the voltage connection on the drain of Q1 doesn't clearly indicate a 9v connection. From what I have seen from other schematics I assume that this drain connects directly to the 9v.

Yes - that one is fine and has probably been built hundreds of times. And yes on the Q1 drain to 9V connection.

The only thing I don't like about this one and the original is that it has no power supply filtering. Not a problem if you run it from battery power or a clean good quality 9V supply, but if you use a cheap noisy adapter you will get noise from the pedal.

[brazdj]

Hello again...

My squeezer works and it is based on a mix of the GGG scheme and Kula scheme mostly due to my not having a 10k trimmer at the moment.

Turns out my issue was...the runners on my breadboard are not continuous alllll the way down but break in the middle therefore half of my board was grounded but actually not at all. Doh!!!

I do have one question. When I turn my 10k potentiometer, there is seemingly no difference in sound.  If it is in full CCW there is no sound, but once I begin turning sound comes on and is not altered by a completely CW turned pot.  I never get to that distorted sound.  Is this a potential issue?  What does this indicate about the JFET Q2?

Thank you advance!

[GGBB]

It may be a problem, but if the pedal works properly then it isn't. Does the sound change at all as you are turning the bias control (other than no sound at the start)? Do you get an obvious compression effect and does it vary with bias adjustment?

It's really just a matter of the characteristics of the JFETs, and since they vary a lot, the bias control will work a little differently on one versus another. So the pot setting for the sweet spot would move around with different JFETs.

Can you measure the voltages at the JFET pins for various bias settings and post them?

Threw this together for easier reference in this thread:

[brazdj]

Thank you so much for taking some time to help!

I was mistaken about my potentiometer operation slightly.  From 0 - 50, volume builds but the compression kinda remains constant. From 50-100 there is no change.  0 being fully CCW and 100 being fully CW.

My test results following Kulas build are

4 columns, potentiometer at 0 33 66 100

Q1

D 8.99  8.99  8.99  8.99
S 0.51  1.24  1.86  2.65
G 0.00  0.71  1.33  2.11

Q2

D 0.00  0.71  1.11  1.11
S 0.00  0.71  1.33  2.11
G 0.00  0.00  0.00  0.00

Please let me know if anything looks funky!
Thank you again,
Daniel

[GGBB]

Other than Q1 drain and the zeros, they all look too low. But once again if it is working then they are fine. Here's the GGG reference: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_osq_instruct.pdf.

Why they are low I don't know. Are you sure its a 10k pot? Did you build it correctly and not make any mods or part substitutions? A leaky 4u7 cap that parallels the bias pot could also explain it. With the power disconnected, what resistance does the pot provide at max?

[brazdj]

Hello again,

I measured the pot and it spans the full ~10 k within tolerance.  I changed all the caps out.  I made a few wiring errors around the IC, but I believe I have fixed them.  I built using the GGG instructions/item list.  I get to about 3.0 V on my Q1 S G and Q2 S pins; about 1.8 V on my Q2 D pin; and about 0.06 V on my Q2 G pin. But it still sounds just like a volume pedal, no discernible squeezing going on yet. 

Per the instructions you, GGBB, posted (from GGG), my IC 5 pinout reads 3.92-ish V.  All the rest of the pins have ~equal voltages to the published values.

I think the issue may be with the layout leading from 9V to the Q2/IC5 split.  Or the way I have wired my Q1 to Q2 interaction.  Regardless I have attached photos of my board.  Hopefully some wise eyes can guide me to the light!

[GGBB]

It looks mostly correct, but I'm having a hard time making out the two resistors to the left of Q1. It looks like they are the input to ground pulldown and you used two resistors in series instead of one. Is that right? (If so - future note - always mention deviations from the schematic/layout/build when you ask for help troubleshooting.) I can't see them well enough to verify those connections.

Otherwise - there are a lot of leads looking very close together - not possible to tell from the 2D pictures whether anything is touching that shouldn't be.

A couple of other things to verify if you haven't yet - just to be sure to cover everything - have you checked that your JFET pinouts are DSG as you've built it? Check the manufacturer's data sheet. Have you verified continuity between all connected components with your meter? Breadboards are notoriously unreliable in that regard.

The higher voltages are an improvement - does the bias control work differently/better now? The lowish pin 5 could just be meter loading.

I'm not clear about what you mean by "sounds just like a volume pedal" - are you saying the volume changes when you play? How?

What kind of pickups are you driving it with? If they are low output or too high output, they may be never/always triggering compression. Changing the 220k is the remedy for that (higher for low output pickups).

EDIT: I just re-read your first post - do you still have a lot of noise? That could be throwing a wrench into the works. Circuits are always noisy on breadboards because there is no shielding from mains noise or RF. Turn off nearby computers and florescent lights, or place a metal bowl over it (or try foil wrap or foil food container). Power supply noise could also be a problem - use a battery.

[brazdj]

Thank you so much for your time.  It is really nice to have guidance provided.  I'll be sure to pass it on if any others have issues with this squeezer (which a quick search on this board shows to be an inevitable event!).

I did as you suggested and everything checked out.

My pulldown resistor is represented by a 1m and a 520k in series. I'll definitely be clear about any changes/deviations in the future.

So my major error...was that i was just playing mp3s through the pedal. I plugged my guitar in this morning and it is definitely compressing with eventual distortion if I crank the pot.  I still am unsure why my voltages on Q2 are off, I'm very confident everything is wired as it should be.

The noise issue I corrected about a week ago.  I didn't realize that the power columns on my breadboard are not continuous the whole way down, so half of my circuit was not grounded when I though it was...

Thank you again! And I will post better pics of breadboard for the sake of posterity.

[brazdj]

Board as mentioned.  I will submit more pics of the finished product once I get the actual trimmer in lieu of the pot I currently use.

If anyone has questions or finds an error, let me know!

[GGBB]

Your voltages aren't actually low. The GGG numbers are just the measurement of one successful build. There will always be variations due to the widely variable nature of JFETs. Yours are in the ballpark, and most importantly it works.

Glad you got everything sorted out.