Technique for Using Perfboards

[natron_mn]

I've built about 30 pedals, all of which have been built from pcbs I've purchased online (Rullywow, Aion Electronics, Madbean, etc). Those have worked great, and they make the job *much* tidier.

So, my builds are then limited to the available pcb circuits. However, I would like to start building pedals from Run Off Grove, or any of the other perfboard layouts that exist. But I'm unsure how to build from a perfboard. For the record, I've tried a few veroboard builds of Zvex circuits (SHO and Mastotron) since they are fairly minimal component builds and thought it would help me improve with Vero designs. But I have not once successfully built a vero pedal. Thus my reliance on others' pcbs.

I'm wondering if anyone has any techniques they can offer for working with perfboards? Last week I tried an Emerson Em-drive (another low component build), but things were getting *really* messy. I'm mostly wondering how you connect each of the components on the underside of the board, cause it seems like it could get quite messy. Do you simply use solder bridges, or do you add bus wire?

Please help!

[GibsonGM]

I do ALL my builds on perf, Natron.  I haven't bought a PCB in 18 yrs. I bet.  Someday I'd like to MAKE PCBs as some do, etching and all, but I find perf lets me just build right away, no waiting.   Caveat - more complex than an Easyvibe or something may get difficult, LOL.   

Layout is the hardest part, of course.  I try to put ICs in the middle, figuring out how many R's and C's I'll be adding...so how many holes I'll need to leave each side of the IC.  I use sockets, never the actual IC, of course.

I'll put a resistor, for example, between pins 1 & 2 of my IC socket, and bend the leads over to touch the socket pins.  I solder, then cut the leads off.  Sometimes I figure out how long the leads must be, and cut first.     I try to make a ground bus....to put the ground 'line' on the board bottom in a way that makes sense so parts can just jump to it.

You have to be a little careful not to cross component leads much, to follow good layout practice, which is a whole topic in itself!!   You have to avoid things that will allow noise to couple between parts.   Cross at right angles....keep inputs and outputs as far away from each other as you can.
Keep lead lengths short.   Try to make straight runs with right angles, just for neatness as well as noise.  Keep LFOs as far from audio circuits as you can.  Try to think the build thru in circuit blocks before you start...where is input, output, power?  What makes sense?

It's surprisingly easy to do this after you try just a few times!  I recommend it, as you can just go build, like I said earlier.  I don't find it to take much longer than populating a made board, either.   

I always add 'wire' (either a real jumper on top, or a stripped wire or component lead on the bottom), never just a bridge as that will probably fail.

Once you get good, you can build just about any schematic onto perf, so you are not restricted in projects.

[natron_mn]

Really helpful, thanks Gibson.

One thing that makes me nervous about diving into Perf is that I want to solder all of my components into the board, and then add the connections. But I feel like that will be tough to add the connection to an already soldered point. Is that how you do it? First solder in connections and then add the connections? Or do both have to be done at the same time? I.e. if I am soldering a resistor and one end connects to the circuit input, do I have to put both that resistor and the connecting wire through the hole and solder them together? Or can I solder the resistor, then come back to it and add the connection?

[blackieNYC]

A three way junction doesn't need to be soldered all at once. In your first round of soldering components in there, I will leave one leg unsoldered in order to add later. But you don't need to. You can get the legs a little closer together at a junction point if you bend them to that point first, then solder. It isnt that important   But I would not try to solder in all the resistors and then proceed.
Follow the schematic. Believe it or not, a good schematic can get you halfway there in terms of part placement. Build by the circuit, not R1,  R2,  R3 ...  Like G says, put one of two opamps in the middle and work your way out. Keep op amp feedback loops small, and make a check mark on the schematic with every part and each junction as you go. Use a magnifying glass.
You can also reproduce the grid of your perf board to scale, and figure out how to draw the components in. I do that for the tricky parts. And if you need to have overlapping (insulated)jumpers underneath, I say just do it.  there's a very good chance it won't cause a problem. No it's not good practice at all, but you'll get better at it.

[Ben Lyman]

I posted some pics in this thread to show how I bend the legs around and then solder as I go:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=113917.msg1056436#msg1056436

[natron_mn]

Very neatly done. When you bend those leads, do you then put in the connecting components and solder them together?

[GibsonGM]

Exactly what these guys are saying...you can try it YOUR way!  Try a couple of different ways.  If I have room, I will often 'overlap' many connections...soldering each as I go.    Or, if it's very easy to see what goes together, I may have 3, 4 component leads 'waiting' til all the parts are in, then I'll do the one big node at once.

I don't think putting a LOT of parts in first is good, tho, as you may easily get confused!  As long as they all get soldered where they need to, little to worry about.


These guys tend to be a little neater than I am, ha ha...I like the precision some of you end up with.  I am a little more sloppy, but it works! 

[Kipper4]

I do a similar thing Ben.
Plan my layout as Gibson says. Put the (stamps) where I think best and do a DIYLC layout. Check ,double check.
Solder in some low lying parts and use the legs as traces. I use needle nose pliers to create the traces. Just remember everything's back to front.
You'll soon get used to that.
Sockets next.
I try to do caps last.
Then off board wiring.pots wiring.
Test before boxing. Debug if needs be. This is more often than not.
Amend the DIYLC if needs be.
Use my wire snips to cut off any excess board. Hotmelt glue some card on the trace side and start boxing planing and art work.
There's an element of box planing while doing the layout to consider.
I like to take my time. I have plenty of it. I try to enjoy all the processes, except off board wiring which I still find a pita. Offboard wiring did become more pleasant after I got some wire strippers though.
This kinda thing for a few bucks from Asia.

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hand+Tools/d10/Electrical+Tools/sd170/Automatic+Wire+Strippers/p46684

I haven't done many etched boards. The more complicated stuff I tend to buy etched.
Get perfing.
I have a hate hate relationship with vero.

[Kipper4]

I found this

http://www.diystompboxes.com/beginner/build/npnboostbuild.htm

Plus I forgot to say you can plaguerise etched board and transfer it to perf to save some time and learn best practices within the limits of practicality.
Google is really helpful
(Insert circuit name here) perfboard layout. Click search.

If you've seen some of the tonepad pcb it's easy to see how it might translate to perf.

There's also perfboard planner sheets on the net. You can go real old school and use pencil and paper.

[Ben Lyman]

Here's a pretty cool vid:

[rutabaga bob]

My usual way is to take the schematic, some graph paper, and a pencil, and work out the layout first.  Sometimes it takes quite a bit of figuring/redrawing to work out how things fit the best.  In general I try and put the input and output at the bottom, running the power and pot connections at the top.

If you figure out the layout first, you know just how much perfboard you're going to need...this comes in handy when you're down to only having cut-off remnants from other builds, and need to fit your circuit onto available pieces of perf.  (I'm not the only guy that does this, am I?)

[Cozybuilder]

It depends on the size of the box I'm using. For small box builds, I fit the hardware to the box first, then design the layout based on the size of perf that will fit, including a plan for solidly mounting the perf. That could be with board-mounted pots or standoffs for 1590LB or 1590A builds, or it could be a combination of standoffs and board-mounted pots for larger boxes.

[antonis]

...Bended leads, stripped & soldered toghether...

Guys, please post a video when desoldering/extracting any of those defective or wrongly placed components... 

[bluebunny]

Guys, please post a video when desoldering/extracting any of those defective or wrongly placed components... 

This I would love to see.  Perf is great, but I consider it a "write-only" medium.

[GibsonGM]

...Bended leads, stripped & soldered toghether...

Guys, please post a video when desoldering/extracting any of those defective or wrongly placed components... 

Simple. Don't make a mistake. 

Ha ha...you CAN get a misplaced part out, but it is messy, may mess up your pads and damage something else.  It takes time and patience to remove a component 'correctly'.

One thing that helps is to use "nodes" - solder a resistor, for ex., where it passes through the board.  Bend lead over to another node. Only solder there.  I do not make "traces" - my bent component leads are really only "jumpers', and are not attached to the board. 

Yup, generally "write-only"! 

[samhay]

...Bended leads, stripped & soldered toghether...

Guys, please post a video when desoldering/extracting any of those defective or wrongly placed components... 

Having learnt that lesson, I now solder the components to the board (as you would a PCB), then use cut-offs and/or solder bridges to join everything up. This way, there is a modest chance you will get at least one chance at a revision.

I thought I was onto something a few years ago when I discovered through-plated perf. If there is one medium that is absolutely 'write-only', it is that stuff.

[Ben Lyman]

...Bended leads, stripped & soldered toghether...

Guys, please post a video when desoldering/extracting any of those defective or wrongly placed components... 

I'm not gonna make a vid but I will say it's much easier than you think.
Simply suck the solder off one pad next to the component, which then exposes a portion of the lead.
Snip it with the tip of your cutters right over the (now exposed) pad and repeat for the pad on the other side of the component.
Now you can easily bend the two leads up, grab the component from the other side, and (maybe) apply your iron one more time as you pull the component out. It takes me about 30 seconds and it leaves all the traces intact and a couple of nice clean holes for the replacement component.

[GibsonGM]

Or, cut the component off and just "straddle" where it was   

[anotherjim]

Copper pad perfboard is slightly less forgiving than stripboard for rework, but that's only because the copper strips have more attachment area than the pads.

I suck the solder off and then quickly pick the bent lead away from the pads so it can be pulled back through the hole. If you do loosen the pad, then get rid of it. The beauty of perfboard is that it doesn't have to rely on fixing the leads at the hole, but an adjacent hole instead.

BTW, any kind of PCB rework is another skill-set to learn. Removing components from scrap board from old radio's or whatever is very good practice. Don't bother trying old computer boards though, they are likely to be unleaded solder and have huge copper track areas to heat up before the solder flows.

I use a hand desolder-pump and can work pretty fast with it - that's another skill. I know when a joint may need a little fresh solder to help it flow into the pump, or when the pump needs cleaning out. There are many who hate the things and use fluxed wire braid to "wick" the solder off the joint.

[duck_arse]

(I'm not the only guy that does this, am I?)

not the only one, no. not a row of holes of perf is wasted here.

I do a differnt method, starting with a layout in diylc. then I do a seperation dia, with just the traces on, and mark all the holes that will havva component lead or fly-wire. then I strip out three strands of mains cable, twist them into a rope, and stitch all the traces onto the board. anywhere a lead goes, the rope passes thru and I don't solder. I anchor the rope by passing thru and soldering the unused holes. and I end up with a board with all the traces, but no parts.

the board ends up a little up and downish, it's not as flat on top, obvs. and it takes a lot of time, and it might break a less patient type. but all the extra faff provides levels of checking along the way, so there are minimal surprises on completion.

I only use the green fibreglass double-sided plated thru boards, they are a dream to solder. unsolder - it's better to drill thru the solder than to try and suck/remove a leg, but it can be done.