Rat Ruetz mod on a footswitch

[UnholyRiffs]

Hey guys I'm trying to put the Ruetz mod on a Rat using a dpdt and having an issue. Doesn't seem to work to well and when the gain is up it squeals like crazy when engaged with the pitch changing by gain adjustment. Not engaged sounds like normal. I had the resistor on a spdt on/off and worked great but want it on a footswitch.

https://www.mammothelectronics.com/collections/switches/products/4sfs2pdt-lsi

Thanks

[GGBB]

Welcome. Judging from the pictures, your switch either bypasses (jumpers) or inserts a 47R resistor. Neither of those things is the Ruetz mod. If you are jumpering the existing 47R resistor connected to the op-amp - that would explain the squeal. Do you have a diagram of what you did/followed? A pic showing where the other ends of the wires are connected would be extremely helpful.

[UnholyRiffs]

You'll have to give me a sec on pictures of the other side but it's connected directly to the Rat board. Isn't the Ruetz mod clipping the 47r or putting it on a pot? I had it on a spdt and worked great resistor/no resistor

[GGBB]

Isn't the Ruetz mod clipping the 47r or putting it on a pot?

Yes. But you added a jumper on the switch which bridges - not clips - the 47R. Replacing with a pot would give you almost the same thing at min resistance setting. (I'm making assumptions because I cannot see the wiring.) "Clip it" means remove it, breaking that leg of the circuit between the op-amp and ground leaving only the 560R/4.7uF leg functional. With the jumper, you've connected the op-amp directly to ground through the 2.2uF cap with no resistor - which makes for excessively high gain at any setting. Try removing the jumper from the switch.

[UnholyRiffs]

Holy hell why didn't I realize that. I'll get the pedal in the morning and clip it, can't believe my head's that clouded.

[UnholyRiffs]

Hmmmm. Cutting the jumper just kills the signal. So it's 47r/mute now.

[GGBB]

Back to needing pictures of your work and and diagram of what you followed (intended to do).

[UnholyRiffs]

Just your standard Rat trying to put a Ruetz mod on/off with a footswitch.






From this:



full size image hosting



To hopefully this.
https://www.mammothelectronics.com/collections/switches/products/4sfs2pdt-lsi

Which I posted earlier.

[thermionix]

Weird.  It should work.  Even if your footswitch is faulty, it shouldn't kill your signal.  Something else is going on, no idea what though.  Check to make sure nothing on the switch (wire strand, clipped jumper) is touching the metal part of the switch, and grounding out.

[UnholyRiffs]

I'm gonna put another resistor on the side like a 330 or something and see what happens tomorrow

[GGBB]

Kudos on the close up photos, but I still can't see where the wires connect - I can only see the ends which doesn't tell me what the wires are connecting. I can make out (just barely) that the orange wire connected to one end of R4 does not connect to that switch or the end of the 47R resistor connected to the switch. What I know about the Ruetz mode says that's wrong. Photos of the whole thing, and a diagram of the version of mod you are trying to do (not of the RAT circuit), please??

[GGBB]

Weird.  It should work.

It should always work. What's unaccounted for is always what makes it not work. 

[UnholyRiffs]

I'm sorry but your not making sense to me. Diagram of the version of the the mod? I'm just trying to put the restistor on an on/off type situation using a footswitch, as in Ruetz mode on, Ruetz mode off. How is that confusing?

I have the Orange wire (from the R4 on the board) to the middle lug of the footswitch
I have the Purple wire (from the R4 on the board) to the middle lug of the footswitch
47r on the outside lug
Bridge on other side outside lug

That's how it's wired.

Have you done a Ruetz mod on a Rat before and put it on a switch or a pot? Cause that's what I'm doing. But as stated before, on a footswitch.

[UnholyRiffs]

Here's this if you've never seen it.

[thermionix]

I have the Orange wire (from the R4 on the board) to the one middle lug of the footswitch
I have the Purple wire (from the R4 on the board) to the other middle lug of the footswitch
47r on the outside lug pair
Bridge on other side outside lug pair

But you cut that bridge, right?

[thermionix]

Weird.  It should work.

It should always work.

Well, if it's wired correctly.  And his appears to be wired correctly.  And I don't see how a bad switch could kill the signal, since open is the goal anyway.  So...weird.

[GGBB]

Have you done a Ruetz mod on a Rat before and put it on a switch or a pot? Cause that's what I'm doing.

Here's this if you've never seen it.

Sounds like you've got it all under control then. 


Seriously though, if you had actually done what you intended to do, it would work.

That's means you made a mistake.

Could have been the diagram you followed (many error prone diagrams of various pedal miscellany exist). The diagram you provided is fine, but it isn't exactly what you did. So ...

Could have been how you interpreted and/or varied from the diagram. We don't know if this is the problem because you only describe what you say you did - you haven't given pictures that show the complete picture of what you actually did. It's always crystal clear in our own heads - like that jumper you originally had on the switch was at one time in your head.

Could have been the work - miswired, bad soldering, solder bridges, melted switches, ...

As I said before - it always should work, but what's unaccounted for is always why it doesn't work. Once you account for the unaccounted, you'll discover the problem.

[UnholyRiffs]

Have you done a Ruetz mod on a Rat before and put it on a switch or a pot? Cause that's what I'm doing.

Here's this if you've never seen it.

Seriously though, if you had actually done what you intended to do, it would work.

That's means you made a mistake.

Oh I can see that somehow, no lie about that, but why did it work on the SPST switch but not on this footswitch? That's why I'm confused. If it was something I did it wasn't the circuit because it works perfectly fine when the 46r is engaged as a standard Rat.

The diagram you provided is fine, but it isn't exactly what you did. So ...

and how is that ...

It is, but I'm doing the Ruetz mod.

We don't know if this is the problem because you only describe what you say you did - you haven't given pictures that show the complete picture of what you actually did. It's always crystal clear in our own heads - like that jumper you originally had on the switch was at one time in your head.

I've shown you the pictures of the send/return. Are you wanting to see my solder work? Sorry if I'm getting frustrated, you just seem to like to mess with me. At lunch I'll see if I can go by the practice room and get more pictures, I wish I could build this at home. I figured you'd want to see the main parts I'm talking about and didn't think that if you saw the whole build you'd have a eureka moment.

Weird.  It should work.

It should always work.

Well, if it's wired correctly.  And his appears to be wired correctly.  And I don't see how a bad switch could kill the signal, since open is the goal anyway.  So...weird.

It is and I cut the bridge, that's when the signal cuts. Odd as hell. This isn't like a diode situation where you need to have a certain side to your ground do you. The Orange wire is from the distortion side and the purple wire is from the 2.2uf side.

[GGBB]

why did it work on the SPST switch but not on this footswitch?

May point to a faulty switch, or wiring, or soldering. Use a meter an check connections, continuity etc.

The diagram you provided is fine, but it isn't exactly what you did. So ...

and how is that ...

It is, but I'm doing the Ruetz mod.

The diagram shows replacing the resistor with a pot not switched. You are replacing the resistor with a switch that has a resistor. Not the same, and interpretation comes into play.

I've shown you the pictures of the send/return.

But not the whole picture where I can seen both ends of the wire in one picture.

Are you wanting to see my solder work?

I hadn't asked that yet but that is often helpful as it does prove to be the problem on occasion.

Sorry if I'm getting frustrated, you just seem to like to mess with me. At lunch I'll see if I can go by the practice room and get more pictures, I wish I could build this at home. I figured you'd want to see the main parts I'm talking about and didn't think that if you saw the whole build you'd have a eureka moment.

Frustration is normal. I am in no way trying to mess with you - you will find that this forum is unlike many in that that kind of behavior isn't tolerated.

Troubleshooting is about crossing all the Ts and dotting all the Is. I can't help you with that unless I see everything you see, or you blindly follow my exact instructions.

--

Let's assume you did everything correctly. Get your meter out and start proving it - that the connections you made are actually made, and that you didn't make any connections you didn't intend. Also check that switch - make sure it didn't get damaged during soldering.

[GGBB]

Another thing - that PCB doesn't appear to be an actual RAT (but can't see enough of it to be sure) - so if you have a schematic with parts numbers for that actual PCB, that might prove useful - at least to rule out that the PCB is slightly different from the original RAT circuit or that R4 is the wrong resistor (there are normally two 47R resistors in a RAT).