noise, noise and still noise

[Agung Kurniawan]

Hi friend..
you have the same problem like me used to be facing off in the past.
from your pedal rig let me guess you are a metal/rock guitarist wich love to have lot of distortion character on your sound. I once using 1 preamp, 1 Booster, 3 Distortion(of course, all of them is multiple gain-stage dist), 1 chorus, and a nice delay on the end.
feed them using regulated PS and daisy chain all of them.
And of course, There is lot of noise coming out such ticking and buzz when I enggage the dist pedal.
I have connecting the ground to earh directly but it only reduce the noise by small pieces.
And also theres no single ground loop from my guitar, effect(there is no ground loop on the pcb), PS(the 0V to the effect ground only have 1 connection), and amp. but still annoying  noises come out from.

But now I have solve the problem with lot of working. Here what I can tell you:
1. Pop sound
what kind of switching did you use? true-bypass? grounded input? etc?
If you dont want any pop sound just simple use Jfet switching, but you need more room over there.
Have you try untrue-bypass with buffer on the input stage? Im using this one and it working best. the pop sound just coming if the amp volume set to max(my amp is 100Watt). even I dont thing its a pop sound because it really soft. it sounds like you moving you fingger on a wool or wall.

2. Electrical noise.
Im not sure what does you mean. but I also have this kind of noise. its some time coming from the amp itself.
believe me my friend, Im using plastic box for all of my pedal because its cheaper and easy to drill. In my room or studio, no difrence at all just dont place your dist near AC voltage source like main outlet.

3. Signal noise
yeah I get it, this one is so !@#$/^ annoying, right?
but why did you still have noise when you have noise gate? did the noise come whem the gate is open?
to fix this I sugest:
a. check your power supply.
what kind of PS did you use? did you daisy chain all the effect with single PS?
If yes, that was your problem. using lot of effect with 1 PS is awfull when there is some dist pedal. It will introduce more noise tho the dist pedal. I once deal with this problem. To solve this, build an Isolated PS. I have finish my own with nice 4 output.
b. Check your grounding.
is there any ground loop from the PS to the effect via daisy-chain cable? is there any ground loop inside the box? have you connect your ground to earth? its necesary to double check your ground.

yeah I know its going to spend lot of time but if you want quiter effect rig dont be lazy my friend.
Now there is 4 effect in my effect rig, booster, distortion(3 gain stage), chorus, and delay. when the dist gain on full position, I can only hear the noise if the amp volume set to max. and the noise is fairly weak, its like a wind sound coming from my dist pedal.
well, that was I can tell you based on my experince dealing with noise. hope this helping

[pipporan]

hi agung, thanx first of all for your suggestion...
well, most of what you guessed is true:) (i'm a rock/metal guitarist, yep!)
except for one main things: first, im having these troubles not in chain, but just "testing" pedals at home (low volumes, one pedal only connected etc etc)

in this condition (i havent tested the pedals on practice room yet), i just realized this:

its some time coming from the amp itself

yeah, both the pop sound and the electrical sound came from a tension that came from the amplifier and remained in the circuit..i tested with another amp (a much better one) and most of the noise and the pop went away

in general; yeah, i use true bypass switching with 3pdt switches, i never tried jfet switching, 'cos of lazyness:) building (and boxing) another little circuit is not in my dreams, d'you know what i mean!;)
until now, i've done the simpliest true-bypass switching possible, now im beginning to ground the input when bypassed...until now i havent earthed the effects too, now im beginning to do it...until now i havent isolated the plastic boxes, now im beginning to put aluminum foil inside them...
when i play with the band, often i use one/two effects, so i use single power supply for each pedals; but if i use more effects, i have a warwick case, with isolated supply (i guess)...i bought it used, and the old owner tolm me that he rebuilted the supply, to have more power and more isolation than the default one...

believe me my friend, Im using plastic box for all of my pedal because its cheaper and easy to drill. In my room or studio, no difrence at all

good to know!
for the future, im thinking about making my own (with custom sizes) boxes bending 2-3mm aluminum, but i wouldnt want to make other boxes for the effects i already boxed!!!

but why did you still have noise when you have noise gate?

i dont have noise when i use noise gate...actually, i dont have SIGNAL noise when i use the gate, the "electrical" noise (with electrical noise i mean a background noise that is not affected by chaing volumes or gain) stands unaffected by the gate, but like i said, it was mostly amp's fault!

is there any ground loop from the PS to the effect via daisy-chain cable?

ehm...what is a ground loop?

[thermionix]

what is a ground loop?

Both aviation and audio electronics have ground loops.  Both of them are undesirable.  The aviation one is much, much worse though.

Best way I can describe the audio type is a circuit that has the same ground connection made too many times, so that current can flow in a loop.  One example off the top of my head is take two amplifiers plugged in to grounded AC outlets, then hook them together with an instrument cable.  If these are old Fender amps or similar, the AC ground is connected to the chassis of each amp, and so is the ground of the input jacks, now the two chassis are connected to each other twice.  That can cause a bad hum, but doesn't always.  Same type of thing can happen with pedals, it is a common concern with ABY switchers and such.  It can also happen within a single device, not just between devices.  "Star grounding" is one common way to avoid this, each ground connection inside an amp or pedal is only made once.

[pipporan]

ok, so star grounding means to avoid "ground nodes",and to connects all ground wire one by one all the the same point...is it right?

[thermionix]

Yes, or I guess you could say there is one ground node.

[pipporan]

guys, i already said one year ago, but i repeat it: of all the forums i joined in last ten years, this is by far the warmest!
everytime i ask something (even stupid questions), severals answer me, with deepened suggestions!
really, really thanx!!

[pipporan]

i was thinking: since i use veroboards, i could dedicate a row of the veroboard for strgrounding, so everything would be easy and organized...

[EBK]

i was thinking: since i use veroboards, i could dedicate a row of the veroboard for strgrounding, so everything would be easy and organized...

Yes. Plenty of people begin a layout with that very same principle in mind. 

[pipporan]

great! i like simple but effective things