Beatles Rhythm Guitar Fuzz

[Passaloutre]

The new remasters of Sgt. Peppers and reading [this article](https://reverb.com/news/the-true-story-of-vox-ul730-beatles-sgt-peppers-amp) have renewed my interest in a guitar tone-gear hunt that I have never quite satisfied. I have always admired the rhythm-guitar fuzz sound featured on many Beatles tracks--not the searing fuzz leads of Taxman or Helter Skelter--but the bright fuzz often used for rhythm guitar chord stabs in tracks like Getting Better or Oh Darling. Similar sounds are all over Abbey Road.

My research would indicate that these come from either: plugging your guitar directly into the recording board at Abbey Road, or some wacky fuzz circuits built into obscure Vox transistor amps.

Neither of those is a realistic option for my purposes.

So I'm wondering if anybody has come across these tones in a fuzz or distortion circuit

[Ben Lyman]

I read somewhere that John had a Tone Bender 1.5, the one that has two transistors like a Fuzz Face. Anybody else hear about that?

[R.G.]

My research would indicate that these come from either: plugging your guitar directly into the recording board at Abbey Road, or some wacky fuzz circuits built into obscure Vox transistor amps.

The fuzz circuits built in to Vox amps are not obscure...   

That's well-plowed ground.

[digi2t]

[Passaloutre]

My research would indicate that these come from either: plugging your guitar directly into the recording board at Abbey Road, or some wacky fuzz circuits built into obscure Vox transistor amps.

The fuzz circuits built in to Vox amps are not obscure...   

That's well-plowed ground.

Are the circuits any good? Do you think they'll get me towards the sounds I'm looking for? Can they be build into a pedal? Got any schematics?

[Passaloutre]

Any info on the pedal John's using there?

[bloxstompboxes]

Any info on the pedal John's using there?

Googling "what fuzz box did john lennon use" will give you a bunch of results. The first of which, will take you to a page where this same pic is located. Reading on that page, will tell you it's a WEM Pep Rush. Googling that plus the word schematic, will get you the schematics of the germanium and silicon versions.

[Passaloutre]

Perhaps I was being too vague in my first post. I certainly don't mind discussion of the other distortion sounds the Beatles used, but here I'm specifically looking to the sound of the rhythm guitar in Oh Darling. As in, that first chord you hear after the word "darling" 3 seconds into the song. Is there a way to achieve that tone without a vintage Vox amp or obscure fuzz box?

[Ben Lyman]

I built a si pep box a long time ago with a kit from Ian Sherwin. It was a pretty gnarly fuzz.
I don't know if Oh Darling is an effect or Fuzz of any kind. Is it? I thought it was just a lot of treble and a cranked amp or console.
Check this pic, lower right corner.. seems like John's favorite position to keep a fuzz pedal

[Passaloutre]

 

It may not have been a fuzz box, but it definitely sounds fuzzier than a cranked amp, and I don't know many amps that are that bright when cranked. I don't particularly care about the original equipment, I just want to make something that'll get me in that neighborhood.

[Mark Hammer]

Weren't some of the tones a result of overdriving the mic inputs to the Neve console?

[Passaloutre]

I've read that, yes. Which is why I'm hoping I might be able to emulate the same tones with a stompbox, as I certainly can't afford (or carry around) the recording console.

So perhaps a good plan of attack is to research some of the mic preamps used in that era, and try to shoehorn one into a stomp? Would these have been tube preamps? Surely I could get there with JFETs in that case.

[stonerbox]

I've read that, yes. Which is why I'm hoping I might be able to emulate the same tones with a stompbox, as I certainly can't afford (or carry around) the recording console.

I'm afraid that you are gonna need a nice transformer to get that particular sound. Seems like a pretty big task to convert a 1073 into a stompbox. Not impossible but damn near.

[Passaloutre]

Certainly it's possible without the transformer, right? Most of the preamp schematics I'm finding do not use a transformer for the instrument input

[R.G.]

The Vox distortion circuits are pretty simple. They're variants on back-to-back diode clipping or a silicon fuzz-face like circuit. But the magic is all in the voicing of the stuff around them.

If you don't know what circuit you're trying to get to, it's going to be a long, difficult cut-and-try process though.

In reference to mic preamps in recording consoles:

Would these have been tube preamps? Surely I could get there with JFETs in that case.

That's a common misconception.

You need to be aware that in spite of the fad for translating triode circuits into JFETs, JFETs are not triodes, nor do they particularly act like triodes, except for the similar process for biasing. Nor do they particularly sound like triodes, at least in circuits where the triodes' characteristics are the determining factor in the sound.

Fortunately, the determining factor in a distortion sound is usually not the amplifying element. It's more often the variation of the clipping (regardless of what did the clipping) and the EQ before and after clipping. I suppose in that sense, going to JFETs instead of triodes may help if the circuit EQ is easy to preserve in the transplant process.

But JFETs are not triodes. Neither are MOSFETs.

Certainly it's possible without the transformer, right? Most of the preamp schematics I'm finding do not use a transformer for the instrument input

As an antique dealer was rumored to say about an old axe that a customer was looking at: "You know, that axe used to belong to George Washington. It's the one he chopped down the cherry tree with. He kept that all his life and used it on his place at Mount Vernon. Of course, as a working tool, it has had repairs as necessary. It's had three new handles, and two new heads over the years..."

If you keep saying "surely I don't need [another newly discovered hard part to find] you'll eventually substitute all the hard parts. But will it still be the real thing? It's seductive to keep on rationalizing substitutions, but eventually you have to wonder whether you've gotten to where you wanted to go at all. Not that it can't work. But do keep tabs on just how many compromises and substitutions you make along the way.

Once you discover the real way.

[thermionix]

I remember a book came out some years ago called Beatles Gear.  We had a few copies for sale at the guitar shop I worked in.  I never looked at it, but the general idea was supposedly what equipment they used on which recordings.  I can't say if it got detailed enough to mention what fuzz pedals were used where.

[Passaloutre]

This looks like a candidate:

https://reverb.com/item/3970604-jext-telez-white-pedal-fuzz-overdrive-mrb-vox-conqueror-white-lp-tones

You make a good point, RG, that the tone shaping is as important as the clipping character. And the ship of Theseus becomes quite relevant when trying to emulate circuits the lazy way.

I've got one on the way. Will give a full report when it arrives.

[GibsonGM]

Just thinking...is the sound you're looking for also the fuzz tone on "Glass Onion"?  There's a lot more of it in that song....   

I wonder how much of it is the guitar used...

[Passaloutre]

Yes! Glass Onion has it, good catch. That splatty bright guitar. It's a really nice texture I've always admired from the Beatles' palette. It would probably sound like thin ass on its own, but it sits in the mix wonderfully.

[JOHNO]

I think that sound maybe found with the pep rush box and the volume of your guitar turned down a little.