3 foot switchs on a 1590xx enclosure

[navin]

I was thinking of DIYing a pedal using Fuzz face and Big Muff PCBs (FuzzDog's Engorged Gherkin and Filthy Fack for example) into a single 1590xx box.

The simple way would be to have 2 foot switches with one for each effect. The other (second) option is to have one foot switch as on/off and the other to switch between effects.

However I was considering an effect order option and wondering if one can squeeze a 3rd foot switch into a 1590xx (about 140mm wide) so as to include an "effect order" switch.

Is this practical. Usually I find most store bought effects have between 70-75mm between foot switches. How close can foot switches get before it becomes error prone? 60mm? Anyone know?

Also since we are on this topic anyone have experience with FuzzDog effects (see link) specifically the Gherkin and Filthy Fack?
http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/
http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/Engorged_Gherkin_Fuzz/p847124_14535415.aspx
http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/Filth_Fack!_-_Crazy_Germanium_Fuzz,__board-mount_version_-_vertical_config/p847124_13549341.aspx

[stallik]

Hi Navin, the links you provided include pcb dimensions and a good layout photo so you can guage how much extra room you'll need for the pots which overhang the board. Hammond give dimensions for the 1590xx and you'll find the switch dimensions on the web.

Draw the internal 1590xx space on a sheet of paper, then make life side cutouts of the pcb's (+ room for pots), switches, jacks, 9v or battery etc and see if you can find a layout that would be possible, practical and useable. Remember, you've also got to wire it up and service it later.

My initial thoughts are that you need a bigger box but the above is a useful technique.
Good luck

[bluebunny]

Quite apart from the sizes of PCBs and enclosures, in the end it's all down to the size of your feet and your footwear.  Do you have small feet and wear winkle-pickers, or are you at the size-15 wellies end of the spectrum?

[Plexi]

I dont remember where, but I saw pedals that have one switch is a few mm's in the front/back from the others.

[blackieNYC]

Toes aside, do you like the sound of a big muff before the fuzz face?

[Plexi]

Toes aside, do you like the sound of a big muff before the fuzz face?

I ask same question...but there's some kind of poetry in the fuzz sonic annihilation
Take a look to the Blackout Effectors Fix'd Fuzz Deluxe

[PRR]

> How close can foot switches get before it becomes error prone?

I can't drive the sporty car because my nerve damage doesn't always hit the right pedal, 4"-5" apart.

Organists play with their feet, have done so for centuries. It *appears* that organ pedals are 33mm apart; correction welcome. Note that an organist has a special pair of shoes for playing: not spectacularly pointy, but not the army boots. (Also because you do not get street-dirt on an organ.) Also organ pedals go down easy, you can use a big toe; many stomp-switches want considerable force and a shoe-sole helps spread the pain.


http://www.familjenpalo.se/vpo/pedalboard
http://www.familjenpalo.se/sites/default/files/bilder/pedal_w_measurements.png

[ElectricDruid]

I'd have said you can get three switches in the 150mm you mentioned without too much difficulty. This is especially true if you place the middle switch forward of the other two to give a triangular arrangement rather than straight line. This enables you to step on the middle one more easily without hitting the outside pair. The outside ones you can still get to because you can come at them from the sides of the pedal. This still might not be ideal for a cramped pedal board, but hey. If you're ramming everything into the one box, you maybe don't care.

HTH,
Tom

[navin]

I'd have said you can get three switches in the 150mm you mentioned without too much difficulty. This is especially true if you place the middle switch forward of the other two to give a triangular arrangement rather than straight line. This enables you to step on the middle one more easily without hitting the outside pair. The outside ones you can still get to because you can come at them from the sides of the pedal. This still might not be ideal for a cramped pedal board, but hey. If you're ramming everything into the one box, you maybe don't care.

Thanks Tom and everyone (stallik, bluebunny, Plexi, PRR, BlackieNYC..)  I tried to multi-quote so I could thank each of you but the forum software does not permit that). The 1590xx box is 140mm wide and given that I have to leave 10mm on each end I would have a C-C distance of 60mm between foot switches if I was to stuff 3 foot switches in one box.

I have actually made paper cutouts for each of the PCBs and placed them inside a 1590xx box. Come to think of it I don't think I would ever use a Fuzz Face and Big Muff together. It was just a thought I had since I was going to stuff both PCBs inside one box.

More likely is that I would use either the Fuzz Face or the Big Muff. Stacking them might create sounds that sound ghastly (or even ghostly who knows). Hence one half of me is preferring a switching that has 2 switches (one to switch the effect on/off and the other to choose between Big Muff and Fuzz Face). Anyone used such a scheme? if so does anyone have the wiring scheme?

With 3 foot switches I was more concerned about the foot pedal spacing as when you are live there is little time to look down and hit the right foot switch. My foot size is 9EE (so yes my feet are pretty wide). The EHX Tone Tattoo (see link below) has 3 switches in a box of similar width.
http://www.ehx.com/products/tone-tattoo

Pot spacing should not be as much of an issue as the PCBs from FuzzDog have the pots mounted on them. The Ozymandias Drive pedal (see link below) I use has pretty tight pot spacing too.
https://reverb.com/item/4578882-animal-factory-ozymandias-overdrive

sound samples here
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/npd-animal-factory-amplification-afa-ozymandias-dual-od-with-clips.1607391/

BTW you can see my pedal board at post #19 here
https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/pedals-aquired-now-i-need-advice-on-pedalboard-and-routing.1755262/#post-22848897

The pedal I intend to replace is my existing fuzz pedal (second from right on the top row) - the silver one with 3 black knobs.

[navin]

Toes aside, do you like the sound of a big muff before the fuzz face?

I ask same question...but there's some kind of poetry in the fuzz sonic annihilation
Take a look to the Blackout Effectors Fix'd Fuzz Deluxe

Nicely done. Looks simple enough.

I am now more inclined to use a less "knoby" schematic instead of the fuzz face. More so since Germanium is often not reliable so instead of the Filthy Fack I am leaning towards the FoxxTave as the second Fuzz tone. See link below.
http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/FoxxTave_-_Foxx_Tone_Machine_Fuzz_with_Ultimate_Options/p847124_11190624.aspx
http://pedalparts.co.uk/docs/FoxxTave.pdf

Also I am pretty sure that having 2 Fuzzes back to back is going to be not very usable. So the pedal will have a simpler 2 foot switch option. The first switches the effect off and on and the second chooses between the two fuzz options. see link below
http://www.sabrotone.com/?attachment_id=3470

I might still have 3 foot switches - the third to switch the Octave in the FoxxTave.

[navin]

Toes aside, do you like the sound of a big muff before the fuzz face?

I ask same question...but there's some kind of poetry in the fuzz sonic annihilation
Take a look to the Blackout Effectors Fix'd Fuzz Deluxe

Nicely done. Looks simple enough.

I am now more inclined to use a less "knoby" schematic instead of the fuzz face. More so since Germanium is often not reliable so instead of the Filthy Fack I am leaning towards the FoxxTave as the second Fuzz tone. See link below.
http://shop.pedalparts.co.uk/FoxxTave_-_Foxx_Tone_Machine_Fuzz_with_Ultimate_Options/p847124_11190624.aspx
http://pedalparts.co.uk/docs/FoxxTave.pdf

Also I am pretty sure that having 2 Fuzzes back to back is going to be not very usable. So the pedal will have a simpler 2 foot switch option. The first switches the effect off and on and the second chooses between the two fuzz options. see link below
http://www.sabrotone.com/?attachment_id=3470

I might still have 3 foot switches - the third to switch the Octave in the FoxxTave.

[blackieNYC]

You've fit three identical posts in nicely, but Do you really need to is the question! 
I see they are launched at the same second so maybe this is some kind of glitch, but if you back up to the DIYSB home page, there is an option for Misc/testing, just to practice posting with quotes, videos, ect. Are you trying to add something to the quote?

[R.G.]

In my day job, I had to design pedals with three or more footswitches on them back in the early 2000s, so this is an old issue to me. You're getting good advice: measure the soles of your shoes.

You need to be able to press one footswitch without pressing either of the ones on the sides of it. When presented with this problem, I thought about it for a few minutes, then took out a ruler, measured across the toe-joints area of my shoe sole, and then took half that as the spacing. I have big feet, so this came out as about 5", 127mm. So we used 62 to 64mm as the spacing. It seems to work well. We have placed many thousands of pedals in the field over the last couple of decades, and don't get complaints about the foot switches being too close or too far away.

You need to remember that this is not a technical/electronics issue, it's a human-factors issue. What will people in general feel comfortable using?

[Ben N]

I've never even seen a three foot switch. Seems a little big for an iddy-bitty 1590xx. 

[Ice-9]

Here is an example of a pedal using a 1590XX and three footswitches, never had a problem with spacing and big para boots. While the spacing here is 55mm between switches there is enough room in the 15900XX to go to about 65mm.

[GGBB]

It *appears* that organ pedals are 33mm apart; correction welcome.

Purely as a matter of record - I think it is actually 2.5" - but it obviously depends on where and how you measure. The "naturals" are 2.5" apart at the near end of the "sharps": http://westminsterorganworks.com/pdf/agoconsole.pdf. Which means sharp to natural spacing is half that which is near 33mm. But sharps have a different elevation than the naturals so as far as foot contact is concerned spacing is 2.5" at both the naturals elevation and the sharps elevation.

[navin]

You've fit three identical posts in nicely, but Do you really need to is the question!  Are you trying to add something to the quote?

Yes I was trying to attach/embed pictures of my box and it would not happen. I have reported the posts to the Moderators so they can clean them. My bad. If I can figure out how to add images I could send pics.

Thank you R.G, Ben N, GGBB, Ice-9. I have the intention to call this pedal The Joker because who knows what sounds it will produce.

I eventually fit the 3 foot switches with the center one 10mm higher from the bottom of this box than the others. Distance between footswitches is 56mm. My box is 144mm wide not 140mm as shown below so I will have 2mm more on each side but the rest of the positions are the same. The pot knobs are all black. The rest of the box will be power painted black. The front face will be printed on a self adhesive sticker and stuck on top. If it wears off we can repeat the process and/or clear coat it.

[ElectricDruid]

Why put the middle switch further back and the outside ones nearer? That seems the wrong way around to me - you have to be able to put your whole foot right in to be able to get to the middle switch. If the middle one is further forward, you can tap it with your toe even if you foot is really too wide to get easily in-between the outside switches.

I'm quite willing to hear why *I've* got it back to front though. Not claiming any special authority on human-pedal interaction here!

T.

[GGBB]

I'm not sure why you would want to stagger any of them if it's for access purposes - they seem plenty far enough apart to me.

I have one pedal with two switches ~34mm apart. When stacked beside a same-sized pedal with one switch, the spacing is ~47mm. I don't find this unmanageable, but I do have to pay attention, and it's not a rapid-access setup by any means. Enclosure is a 1590N1 with switches almost as wide as they can go.

[navin]

Why put the middle switch further back and the outside ones nearer?

Thanks guys, GGBB, Electic Druid,

I was expecting that the minimum distance needs to be 2.5" (63-65mm).
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=84939.0

I did the stagger partially for aesthetic reasons so I could fit the LED for the Octave switch. Anyway the holes have been drilled (see pic) so there is no turning back. I can send more pics on Monday as I am not in town today.



My pedal board is shown below and this pedal will be replacing the 2 foot switch pedal with 3 black knobs on the left of the TREX Fat Shuga. (top row, second from right).