Getting that glossy finish from rattle can clear coat?

[runmikeyrun]

Hey guys.

I have used a variety of clear coats over the years on my pedals.  I'd like to know if there's a way you've used to get a smoother finish.  Mine isn't BAD I just feel it could be BETTER.  Anyone have any luck wet sanding?

My current process is using Rustoleum ultra 2k clear.  I do three coats, 15 mins in between coats.  Light base coat with two heavier coats.  I'm not laying it on too thick, at least I don't think lol.  I'm putting the clear over the top of laser water slide decals.  Here's the sort of issue I am dealing with on my clear coat- an orange peel and what I think is not as glossy as it could be. 

Thanks in advance.




Ham fisting my way through one build to the next since 2003. 

[EBK]

I'm fighting the same battle. 
I've recently applied about 10 very light dust coats, 5 minutes apart, over a laser print decal.  Resulting surface texture is something like fine beach sand.


My current plan is to lightly sand it and apply more light coats (once the humidity outside drops) until I'm confident I can polish it smooth without wearing the surface down to the decal.

I've done heavier coats in past attempts, with poor results - the surface was glossy, but soft (easily marred by anything touching it for more than a few seconds).

[thermionix]

I've wet sanded guitars, but not pedals.  I think Mikey's pedal looks fine, pretty much on par with most factory finishes.

If you really want flat and glossy you'll probably need to use a sanding block, which assumes that you got the enclosure itself dead flat before painting.  The risk of sand-through is high.  You'll need pretty thick buildup of clear, that's a LOT of "dust" coats.

[xorophone]

When I spray thick layers of clear coat I usually get a pretty shiny finish without having to sand it afterwards. This of course breaks the number one rule of spray painting and could result in drips, but I haven't really had that problem with clear coat. I've tried many different brands and some are very dusty, while others are a bit more runny. The runny type seems to work the best for a shiny result.

I usually don't get any orange peel but I still like to wet sand my enclosures just to get rid of small bumps. I'm very worried about sanding through the clear coat, so I usually use some 2000 grit sand paper to carefully get rid of the bumps and then I use a soft 4000 grit sanding disc (without the sander) to get rid of any scratches from the 2000 grit sand paper. That gives me a smooth surface, but it's usually not very glossy. I recommend researching how to polish clear coat. I've never tried it, but I think it's a necessary step if you're looking for a high gloss finish.

You could also try something else like an epoxy finish, but I'm guessing that would come with its own problems.

[Ben Lyman]

I have a new way that breaks the rules too but I like the results. You could try it on a piece of scrap as an experiment and see how it works for you.
Here's the steps:
1) spray a light overspray, this is just a mist and can look speckled.
2) wait 30 seconds.
3) spray a thin but even coat, should cover more completely than the misty coat and look smoother.
4) wait 3 minutes.
5) repeat steps 3 and 4 as many times as needed to achieve a smooth, shiny, thick, wet look. I've done up to 6 coats like this.
6) final step is to wait at least 24 hours to cure before handling and I like to start it off in a toaster oven for about 20 minutes at 90° f.

As you can see, this is a very strange method that a lot of people will say is way, way wrong. Don't do it if you don't want to 

[alr300]

I've used envirotex on a couple of pedals. Main problem is that the top is smooth as glass, but the sides get all drippy... Maybe tapping off the sides, using envirotex just on the top, and careful spraying on the sides? Anybody here tried that?


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[vigilante397]

I also use the Rustoleum 2X gloss, but I only do one coat, do it pretty thick, let it dry about 15 minutes, then bake it at 300 degrees (Fahrenheit) for 15 minutes.

[GibsonGM]

Pro's in a painting shop will thin the material to get it as thin as possible to self-level; that's what I do as a painter myself. In a spray can, obviously you don't have that option.  So we're stuck with what they give us, a middle of the road viscosity product. 

Good suggestions above, and I think your pedal looks FINE tho not "glass smooth"!  I see many things coming out of factories that are not even that smooth.

[EBK]

I've used envirotex on a couple of pedals. Main problem is that the top is smooth as glass, but the sides get all drippy... Maybe tapping off the sides, using envirotex just on the top, and careful spraying on the sides? Anybody here tried that?

I've read success reports from people who have allowed epoxy to thicken (partially cure) before brushing it onto the sides. 

[bloxstompboxes]

Yeah, mine tend to look like that unless I spray too much but then the problems of runs on the sides arises. I don't worry about it too much when I see DOD pedals and how rough they are on the sides and edges. Boss is one that is pretty consistant but never glossy.

[R.G.]

Really glossy, glass-flat finishes require either (very) special paint and techniques, or rubbing out and polishing the paint after many layers.

[runmikeyrun]

I appreciate the tips everyone, thank you!

I'm wondering how much my environment plays a part.  I've also wondered about the finish I'm clearing over. 

I cleared over these powder coated boxes from pedal parts plus last year.  I did them at work in the apparatus bay which is more climate controlled than my usual place- outside.  Not sure how much the box surface itself vs the environment, but they came out like glass.  This is the same clear coat I'm using now. 


Ham fisting my way through one build to the next since 2003. 

[chuckd666]

Tbh I can't be bothered painting enclosures anymore.. though when I did paint them I used a toaster oven to bake between coats to flatten the paint. I never was particularly satisfied with this and it was quite a lot of effort for a merely 'ok' result. I then moved on to hammered style finishes which you can be a lot more lax with! Now I just buy pre-painted because I'm lazy and I only build for myself.

[GGBB]

I don't really have enough goes at it to be certain, but my suspicion is that those few initial light dustings a few minutes apart are what cause the peel effect. I think a thin (but thicker than dusting) coat to start, followed by a couple more at ten minute intervals is where you start. When cured (oven or otherwise), wet sand (don't overdo it) and repeat the thin coats and wet sand. Keep repeating until you're happy, but just the two bouts can get you a good result. I've done a couple this way that came out very glassy. My light dusting attempts came out peely. It's about finding that thickness of coat that is just enough so that it's a smooth continuous layer as opposed to a massive crowd of tiny pebbles.

[Ben Lyman]

I think you nailed it Gord. I think it's when those light dusting are allowed to dry too long. If you check the steps I've listed above, it's all about laying fresh coat onto tacky coat so they melt together. Dried up coats look bumpy and a new coat just sits on the bumps and makes them bigger. Spray the next layer on too soon and the fresh coat hits the "still wet" coat and it drips, clouds, bubbles, etc. I'm not claiming to be an expert and I do think it's weird that my system is so "against the grain" but it's a method that I recently learned from one of the premier old school luthiers in California. His advice includes: "Never follow the instructions on the can!"

I too have been avoiding painting lately but here's the last one I did. My decal work needs practice but I like the way the clear coats came out, probably about 6 to 8 coats on this one, all done in less than 30 minutes time.

[davepedals]

Used to use the regular Rustoleum and never had any problems with it Doing several coats. No orange peel.

[thermionix]

Tbh I can't be bothered painting enclosures anymore.. Now I just buy pre-painted because I'm lazy and I only build for myself.

This is where I am too.  Buy pre-finished or just leave bare.  The ones I have painted, I used enamel and baked to cure.  Paint is nice and hard, but chips easily.  Probably not the best primer, or maybe the paint is too hard.

I haven't tried spraying over a pre-finished enclosure yet.  They aren't all the same, and they may not all get along with some paint types.  I think Small Bear's are powder coated (?), kinda matte finish like Boss.  Mammoth's are more glossy.  Tayda's are glossy too but seem to be more of a film coating, you can see something like that when you drill through them.  I haven't had any peeling problems though.

[runmikeyrun]

This is one from Pedal Parts Plus.  Same clear coat, same painting environment outside.  The finish looks way better, still orange peel but a deeper gloss.  I'm thinking it's gonna come out better with powder coat as a base due to the uniformity etc.


Ham fisting my way through one build to the next since 2003. 

[Christoba]

This is one from Pedal Parts Plus.  Same clear coat, same painting environment outside.  The finish looks way better, still orange peel but a deeper gloss.  I'm thinking it's gonna come out better with powder coat as a base due to the uniformity etc.


Ham fisting my way through one build to the next since 2003.

Getting a good finish isn't hard; it just takes time.  Different kinds of paint have different drying times so be sure not to follow one that doesn't match. 

Car paints- wet coat wait times are short on these 30 minutes max.  This paint is unusual and requires a lot of buffing to look smooth.  Not a fan. Highest color density though.  Even white can be done with 2 coats.  Usually (always) requires a gloss clear coat.

Laquer- fastest dry time of the good paints. Good color density, closer to epoxy than acrylic. Let set coats dry for at least an hour.  If you are going to buff them, let them dry at least 24 hours  2-3 days is best.

Acrylic- nice because you don't need a mask around it and it probably won't give you cancer like the others.  Long dry times.  12 hours between coats.  1 week dry time before you buff. Low density of color so it requires at least 3 coats. White takes 5 or 6 coats to look half decent.

Epoxy- easiest to screw up because it takes forever to dry.  Most people that i see using this are doing it wrong. Great color density, just below auto paint but doesn't require a clear coat.  Let it dry for a month before buffing... seriously.  This stuff says soft for a very long time.  Tolerable if you use a dehydrator.  Hardest and most durable finish when done properly.

-Start with a light mist and wait at least 10 minutes for it to dry a bit.  Do this a couple more times.  Be sure to let them dry.

-spray wet coats.  Let them dry thoroughly between coats.  Seriously. Let it dry or you get orange peel like all of the photos posted.

-let it dry in preparation for the final coat.  Give it a rough sanding (800ish grit).  Clean  thoroughly.  I use dish soap.  Let it dry thoroughly.  Wet coat. Walk away and let it dry.

I'll post some links when im back at a computer but the best techniques for paint application are model car builders.  Mirror finishes are the standard.

Enjoy.


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[Christoba]

This is one from Pedal Parts Plus.  Same clear coat, same painting environment outside.  The finish looks way better, still orange peel but a deeper gloss.  I'm thinking it's gonna come out better with powder coat as a base due to the uniformity etc.


Ham fisting my way through one build to the next since 2003.

Getting a good finish isn't hard; it just takes time.  Different kinds of paint have different drying times so be sure not to follow one that doesn't match. 

Car paints- wet coat wait times are short on these 30 minutes max.  This paint is unusual and requires a lot of buffing to look smooth.  Not a fan. Highest color density though.  Even white can be done with 2 coats.  Usually (always) requires a gloss clear coat.

Laquer- fastest dry time of the good paints. Good color density, closer to epoxy than acrylic. Let set coats dry for at least an hour.  If you are going to buff them, let them dry at least 24 hours  2-3 days is best.

Acrylic- nice because you don't need a mask around it and it probably won't give you cancer like the others.  Long dry times.  12 hours between coats.  1 week dry time before you buff. Low density of color so it requires at least 3 coats. White takes 5 or 6 coats to look half decent.

Epoxy- easiest to screw up because it takes forever to dry.  Most people that i see using this are doing it wrong. Great color density, just below auto paint but doesn't require a clear coat.  Let it dry for a month before buffing... seriously.  This stuff says soft for a very long time.  Tolerable if you use a dehydrator.  Hardest and most durable finish when done properly.

-Start with a light mist and wait at least 10 minutes for it to dry a bit.  Do this a couple more times.  Be sure to let them dry.

-spray wet coats.  Let them dry thoroughly between coats.  Seriously. Let it dry or you get orange peel like all of the photos posted.

-let it dry in preparation for the final coat.  Give it a rough sanding (800ish grit).  Clean  thoroughly.  I use dish soap.  Let it dry thoroughly.  Wet coat. Walk away and let it dry.

I'll post some links when im back at a computer but the best techniques for paint application are model car builders.  Mirror finishes are the standard.

Enjoy.


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Also, be sure to heat the paint to the specidied temp.

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