EM5 Echomachine build

[pinkjimiphoton]

hey reddesert,
please tell me them circles at pin 14 of the quad and pin 8 of the delay chip are supposed to be double links?

before i go melting more chips

[pinkjimiphoton]

hopefully final dumb question... looking at the pinout for the switch, its kinda weird

ya got 1 marked by the corner cut off.
2 is common one
3 says 4

the other side is (going counter clockwise)
4, 5, 6
but 4 says 2, 5 says c(2) and 6 says 8 

i am not entirely sure how i'm supposed to wire this puppy...

do i tie the commons together and use the first 4 pins going clockwise? or am i missing something ?

call me cap'n obvious by all means, but never dealt with one of these before.  so guidance is appreciated!!



i think whats throwing me is being labeled pin 1, 2, 3, 4 when pin 2 is common... or do you just use the 4 in the corners?
does pin 5 need to be tied to pin 2?   

confusion will be my confusticated epitaph





https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/26/PT65%20Series%20Rotary%20code%202018-1314458.pdf

thanks!

here's where i left off at 3 am

[reddesert]

Hey Jimi,

Yes, the circles under the chips are double links.

I don't have my hands on one of those switches yet, but from reading the data sheet, the Common-1 and Common-2, pins 2 and 5, are equivalent. You should get continuity between them I think.

The switch should encode a value from 0 to 15 into binary by connecting the 1,2,4,8 to common.  That is, in position 0, none of them are connected. In position 1, the 1 (pin 1) is connected to common. In position 2, the 2 (pin 4) is connected to common. In position 3, the 2 and 1 (pins 4 and 1) are connected to common. And so on.  In binary this is  0000, 0001, 0010, 0011, and so on.

The confusing thing is that I labeled the vero with Switch 1,2,3,4 meaning the bit locations, but they've labeled the switch with 1,2,4,8 meaning the bit values. I think you should connect my Sw1 wire to value 1 (pin1); Sw2 to value 2 (pin4); Sw3 to value 4 (pin3); Sw4 to value 8 (pin6).

If you get the order wrong, turning the switch will not increase delay time setting in the right order, but it wouldn't damage anything AFAIK.

[pinkjimiphoton]

Hey Jimi,

Yes, the circles under the chips are double links.

awesome sauce. i did 'em a little differently than i usually do, so hopefully it will work. i put some good thick diode leads in the hole and soldered it to the underside, then ran bare wire point to point and soldered it to the post. seemed to work well, but i DID have to take a file to the undersides of the ic sockets.

I don't have my hands on one of those switches yet, but from reading the data sheet, the Common-1 and Common-2, pins 2 and 5, are equivalent. You should get continuity between them I think.

The switch should encode a value from 0 to 15 into binary by connecting the 1,2,4,8 to common.  That is, in position 0, none of them are connected. In position 1, the 1 (pin 1) is connected to common. In position 2, the 2 (pin 4) is connected to common. In position 3, the 2 and 1 (pins 4 and 1) are connected to common. And so on.  In binary this is  0000, 0001, 0010, 0011, and so on.

The confusing thing is that I labeled the vero with Switch 1,2,3,4 meaning the bit locations, but they've labeled the switch with 1,2,4,8 meaning the bit values. I think you should connect my Sw1 wire to value 1 (pin1); Sw2 to value 2 (pin4); Sw3 to value 4 (pin3); Sw4 to value 8 (pin6).

If you get the order wrong, turning the switch will not increase delay time setting in the right order, but it wouldn't damage anything AFAIK.

cool. i was worried about smoking something, i only got two of the pt65303's in, and 2 of the delay ic's left. i just don't wanna smoke anything ... well... you know what i mean

so then 1, 2, 3, 4 have to be the outside pins? going around the pin counterclockwise from pin 1 it would be 1, common, 2, 3, common, 4?

sorry for the dumb questions.

the other weird part is gonna be mounting the switch. i have no idea yet how i'm gonna do this. may have to invest in a better switch down the road, be nice to find something panel mount.

with just a real small addition of vero, you could add the switch right to the back of the board probably, it takes up the same space as a 6 pin dip ic.

thanks for the support bro... hopefully later today i can tell ya it worked

[pinkjimiphoton]

got it all wired up and fired up, and no bueno. turned out i'd made a mistake with a jumper, so i wasn't getting 5v to the common on the switch.
too late tonite to mess with it. of COURSE i removed my nifty little gizmo on perf that supported the switch above the vero thing i had figured out that was soldered to some grounded areas making me think GEEEEENYISSS for a second or three.

tomorrow i will mess with it and re-wire the switch. i suspect it just goes around like a normal switch, going counterclockwise from pin 1

pin 1, 1
     2   common
     3, 2
     4, 3
     5, common
     6, 4

the other way didn't work, but it may be cuz i had that jumper wired wrong. rule # 3,400 broken again.. always look close for mistakes before disassembling something. i should be flogged. 

but confident its gonna work. its passing signal and has a nice transparent buffer happening. i opted to use a simple dpdt to break the signal at the pot wiper and hardwired the jacks. i usually like to leave delays like this <echoplex> right on the amp, so having a buffer just before the amp can be a really good thing after a 20 foot cable run from the board.

more news when i have it ... thanks... so far, for all intents, so good

turns out the 3rd ring on my step bit is perfect for the switch. it actually slides in there and locks in fairly well! i built a little "cage" out of some solid wire that connects to the perf holding the switch. solder the support wires to ground points on the underside of the board, and it holds the switch right in place the same height as the pots.
if i'd had any brains, i would have oriented the thing rotated 45 degrees. but...

here's some pics of where it was at earlier. right now its in a shambles while i debug, but seems to be one of the cleaner builds i've done in a while. or was 

[gcwills]

Thanks for the interest in my EM5 version and especially to reddesert for the excellent vero layout.
The hex switch can be confusing, but as reddesert mentioned, it has a common connection and 4 bit connections that step through a hexadecimal sequence from 0 to F in sixteen steps.
I used a push button switch like this:

You can see the Common pin and the 1,2,4,8 pins

[pinkjimiphoton]

awesome, thanks grant!
i gotta rotary switch. same connections, but in a dip package (6 pins)

i tried various combinations last nite, but no bueno sadly. i tried the chips in the working build, and they are ok, but either i screwed something else up on the vero, or there's a problem with the layout. likely my mistake. i gotta take a hard look at it while actually awake and see if i can find the problem.

all the voltages look to be as expected, it passes signal, but no effect at all. makes me suspect the pots, but they were brand new alphas.

how can you tell with a digital pedal if its working?

i DO get a slight bit of motorboating in the background almost inaudibly. it doesn't change with the knobs but does stop when i pull the delay chip, so i'm assuming the issue is somewhere in the support for the chip.

i will try and post voltages etc later.

the good news is i got the other (3pdt) project done for my bro deacon last nite, and man! this thing sounds great.

i found a trick for setting the delay time range switch... get it feeding back a note, and adjust the short long trimmer until it drops or raises an octave when ya hit the switch back - n- forth

anyways... still plugging...









this one is the first one, the one i made for me.. easier to see the guts



maybe postimage is down? weird, can't get the pics to display

[rankot]

awesome, thanks grant!
i gotta rotary switch. same connections, but in a dip package (6 pins)

i tried various combinations last nite, but no bueno sadly. i tried the chips in the working build, and they are ok, but either i screwed something else up on the vero, or there's a problem with the layout. likely my mistake. i gotta take a hard look at it while actually awake and see if i can find the problem.

all the voltages look to be as expected, it passes signal, but no effect at all. makes me suspect the pots, but they were brand new alphas.

how can you tell with a digital pedal if its working?

i DO get a slight bit of motorboating in the background almost inaudibly. it doesn't change with the knobs but does stop when i pull the delay chip, so i'm assuming the issue is somewhere in the support for the chip.

i will try and post voltages etc later.

the good news is i got the other (3pdt) project done for my bro deacon last nite, and man! this thing sounds great.

i found a trick for setting the delay time range switch... get it feeding back a note, and adjust the short long trimmer until it drops or raises an octave when ya hit the switch back - n- forth

anyways... still plugging...

Where did you buy this PCB?

[pinkjimiphoton]

they WERE on ebay and amazon, but they may have sold out by now bro

[digi2t]

We have a stock version at Dead End FX. Search for the Inchindown PCB.

[danielzink]

I recently built one from this guys pcb:

https://www.facebook.com/Takota-393986571453497/

Tidy little build - works a treat as they say.

Dan

[rankot]

I recently built one from this guys pcb:

https://www.facebook.com/Takota-393986571453497/

Tidy little build - works a treat as they say.

Dan

I've bought the same PCB and was not sure if I can find 74HCU04, so I was looking for alternative. Fortunately Ousmanne (the guy at Takota) instructed me for IC source.

[pinkjimiphoton]

if you're in a bind rankot, i think i have some left over from my builds, shoot me a pm and i can snail mail ya one bro

[rankot]

if you're in a bind rankot, i think i have some left over from my builds, shoot me a pm and i can snail mail ya one bro

Thanks a lot, but I've already ordered them

[danielzink]

I recently built one from this guys pcb:

https://www.facebook.com/Takota-393986571453497/

Tidy little build - works a treat as they say.

Dan

I've bought the same PCB and was not sure if I can find 74HCU04, so I was looking for alternative. Fortunately Ousmanne (the guy at Takota) instructed me for IC source.

Got mine from Mouser (CD74HCU04)

[Ben N]

And still in DIP!

[gcwills]

An update on my Echomachine build.
Firstly thanks to reddesert for his Vero layout. I recently built another of my EM5 variants using his vero layout. There was one error - there should be a cut at position S horizontal and R vertical - just under one of the 100K resistor leads.
Also I must apologise for an error in my schematic relating to the connections to the hex switch. My diagram shows the LSB (1) connected to pin 7 of the M65831, the (2) connected to pin 6, the (3) connected to pin 5, and the (4) connected to pin 4. This is reversed from how the switch should be wired.
The LSB (1) should connect to pin 4 of the IC, (2) to pin 5, (3) to pin 6, and (4) to pin 7.
Note that your switch may be marked 1,2,4,8 instead of 1,2,3,4.
With those corrections, we can call reddeserts vero layout verified

[pinkjimiphoton]

call it verified after the vero is updated. thanks for finding the fault in it, tho... maybe i can get mine working. well done grant! 

[gcwills]

Good call about calling the vero verified - perhaps reddesert would be kind enough to do the changes to his layout

[gcwills]

Another suggested mod to the reddesert vero layout.
I noted that my build using this layout was prone to oscillation in the output section of the TL074 (pins 5,6,7).
This was cured by adding a build out resistor of 1K in series with the output from pin 7.