Perf/Vero Builds Impossible!

[natron_mn]

I've built dozens and dozens of pedals using premade pcbs (Madbean, Aion Electronics, Rullywow, etc) with a high success rate, and even built a tube amp. But I couldn't build a SHO clone on perfboard or veroboard to save me and my family's lives!

I've tried really simple (low component count) circuits on both with zero luck. I've tried a DAM Meathead, Zvex Sho Clone, EQD Acapulco Gold. I'd love to be able to build on either one because it's cheaper than buying a pcb, and there are many more layouts available on perf/vero than there are on pcbs.

But I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong! On vero, I've taken a multimeter to ensure trace cuts were made properly and adjacent rows were not shorted out. On perfboard I've made sure that there are no solder bridges. On both I've made sure my electro caps, diodes and transistors are oriented properly. But none of them work.

It's extremely frustrating, and I'm hoping some folks here have had similar issues that they've overcome! Any pointers?

[Kipper4]

Pointers. Yup

Keep at it.



I still spend more time debugging than I do building. And am much the richer for it.
Even though I have the luck to not be under pressure to get boards done.
So what if it takes me two evening to make an auto wah.
If figure take my time.
Pros
I enjoy the process more.
My builds are neater.
Reduce the risk faults by comparing the nodes from the schematic to the layout.
I will often have ideas for improvements for future boards.

Cons
It takes longer
I don't get to enjoy discovering the pedal as quick.
I don't get to debug as quick either.

I've don't 6 componant builds that have never worked and some that are way more complex that worked first go.

You're in the right place.
Keep at it. Read some more

Start some debug threads with pics and debug info. You know the thread. Right?
With you builds.

You know about the use of an audio probe?


You will overcome.

[stallik]

Frustrating I know. I'd suggest posting some pics of both sides of the boards plus your off board wiring. Also include at least a link to the layout and we can try to determine what's gone wrong.
If there is nothing visually obvious, we may need some voltage readings. Do you have a multimeter?

[italianguy63]

And am much the richer for it.

LOL, send me a check!! I will PM my address! 

MC

[natron_mn]

Thanks, ya'll.

Yeah, I have a probe/digital multimeter. I know how to use it to see if things are shorted (e.g. solder bridges), and how to read resistance, capacitance and voltage. Beyond that, I'm a novice. That is, I'm not sure if people are using them for more advanced things (like seeing if there is a complete circuit from start to finish, or something like that).

[Elijah-Baley]

If it is your very first approach to the stripboard maybe you are wrong where you even don't know you're wrong. Did you read some tutorial very carefully? Maybe there's something you thought you know and you didn't, though your experience. A common mistake is, for example, make the board mirrored.

But do not misunderstand me, I use just veroboard layout, except once, and I find veroboard enough simple and practical, for my intentions, of course.

And yes, some pictures could be helpful.

[287m]

here some tips when work with perf, i still use some
- if possible, print layout, as exactly the real size, or just show in your monitor/smartphone
- color the track in component side to guide, ex https://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/srvkwschar/folder/1023479.html
- solder the componen, you know the priority. BUT, dont cut the leg after soldering.
- fun part, the art. Bend the leg. Meet em! This man have example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2JPMGikkow, or you can visit http://runoffgroove.com/, they have some example too. Almost forgot, storyboardist have example too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-aDx46PMaU
- maybe someday you have patient to build like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MNLTc7YhY 
- why i love perf? With perf, i can build vero style.
hope this help, like my shifu said, "start small"

[digi2t]

So... you're hooked on PCB, and now you don't know how to get off the stuff. It's OK. There are 12 step programs that can help.

Seriously though, I learned on vero first. I moved over to PCB after I had about a dozen or so builds under my belt. Yes... PCB is easy. Oh so easy. Place component, solder, repeat. Generally, the only screw ups are bad soldering, bad components, etc. With vero, you add the dimension of having to prepare the damn board as well, so bad/missing cuts, components soldered into the wrong holes, etc. can creep into the mix. If you're designing the board as well, more problems; missed cuts, BOM errors, etc. add to the frustrations.

The saving grace is this; vero or perf is cheap stuff, so starting over is as expensive as scrapping a PCB might be. As previously mentioned, post some pics of your work so far. Might help us, to help you.

[anotherjim]

Q - Have you only tried published vero/perf layouts or is it trouble working out your own?

PCB building can prevent you learning the whole set of troubleshooting  skills. Most PCB's and (importantly) the documentation that goes with them is mostly proven stuff. If you follow it right, there's a very good chance it will work. PCB silkscreen legends can guide you to make the right hook ups and put parts in the right way around.

DIY board layout demands more than getting the board circuit right. It's very easy to wire controls and jacks wrong. Because it's usually the most complex part, you may be assuming the problems are all on the board. It won't always be shorts and/or opens on the board causing the fail. There won't always be a single cause.

One thing I would advise against, is going through the build from start to finish before doing any testing. Don't put it in a box until you have it working with the power and audio jacks hooked up (some of the wiring may have to temporary). You don't need a footswitch or active LED to do this.

Don't tackle a project without having the schematic to hand. Published perf/vero layouts can contain errors or hide track cuts & links. Without the circuit diagram to check against, I don't see how anyone can guarantee a successful build. With only a layout and BOM to go by, it can appear that you've surely built it right when you have not.

[Tony Forestiere]

Don't tackle a project without having the schematic to hand. Published perf/vero layouts can contain errors or hide track cuts & links. Without the circuit diagram to check against, I don't see how anyone can guarantee a successful build. With only a layout and BOM to go by, it can appear that you've surely built it right when you have not.

+10
No truer words could be spoken.

[natron_mn]

I don't have any current vero/perf boards to show you. I scrapped them last night in a fit of frustration!

But I've got a few I'm wanting to build, so once I've started on one I'll let you know when I've made it wrong.

Thanks for all of the pointers.

[thermionix]

One thing I would advise against, is going through the build from start to finish before doing any testing. Don't put it in a box until you have it working with the power and audio jacks hooked up (some of the wiring may have to temporary). You don't need a footswitch or active LED to do this.

Very good advice.  I threw this harness together out of loose parts before I had a breadboard, but I still use it.



Just quickly tack on the in, out, + and ground wires of a new board before boxing.  Faster than hooking up via BB, as long as your iron's already hot.  Stereo input jack isn't necessary but helps in quick visual ID.

[Addy Bart]

You have reversed the layout, right? First time I used vero, I got halfway through before realizing I was building everything backwards.

Perf is good cos you can lay out the build just like the schematic.

[natron_mn]

Don't tackle a project without having the schematic to hand. Published perf/vero layouts can contain errors or hide track cuts & links. Without the circuit diagram to check against, I don't see how anyone can guarantee a successful build. With only a layout and BOM to go by, it can appear that you've surely built it right when you have not.

Is that even true of layouts that have been stamped "Verified"? The ones I usually look at are Guitar FX Layouts http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/ or Effects Layouts http://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/. They seem to have a good following and people usually comment whether or not the layout worked for them.

[EBK]

I think it's time for you to show us some pictures of the problematic work.  That way, we can finally start being specific with our advice. 

[anotherjim]

Layouts verified by experienced builders, while actually being perfectly correct, can be misunderstood by the less experienced. The experienced eye knows what should be there and fails to see traps for the inexperienced. Such as what looks like one long link wire actually being two sharing the same hole along the way, or a track cut partly obscured by something and colour contrast is such that it don't look the same to you as it did on the designers screen, so it isn't as visible as it should be.

[deadastronaut]

As addy bart mentioned,

your orientation is correct isnt it......when you see cuts they are through the board on the copper side.

Print off the vero,  and flip it and look through to mark your cuts....my son in law built a pedal exactly, but backwards    

[natron_mn]

I'm pretty sure I've had the orientation of the builds correct.

And I've been trying to "rock it before I box it". That is, I set up a little breadboard rig so that I can hook up my pcb to the in/out jacks and V+.

The EQD Acapulco Gold perf I build sounded good when I hooked it up to the breadboard rig, but when I put it in the enclosure (a 1590b, so I wasn't cramming it into a 1590a), it didn't work.

I'll take another look and see what went amiss. Of my perf/vero builds that haven't worked, about 75% of them worked fine before I put them in an enclosure. So I'm doing something wrong when putting it inside the enclosure!

[ElectricDruid]

If you've got working boards before you put them in the box, there's nothing wrong with your building skills!

There's probably something silly that you're doing on the off-board wiring that's stopping them working. But definitely don't junk them if the boards are working - you're nearly there!

HTH,
Tom

[brianq]

If you've got working boards before you put them in the box, there's nothing wrong with your building skills!

There's probably something silly that you're doing on the off-board wiring that's stopping them working. But definitely don't junk them if the boards are working - you're nearly there!

HTH,
Tom

+1 on that, double & triple check  offboard wiring as closely as possible, usually it's a bad connection or cold solder. Have you ever read the "debugging" wiki? it's helped plenty builders over the years.


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