Millenium bypass again

[marcos_s_p]

Hi Guys,

I´ve read quite a bit in the past about the rat, millennium bypass, true bypass, etc, and a while ago when I started building pedals (back in Brazil) I decided to go for DPDTs with true bypass and let aside the LED. I did that mainly because of the cost. I Brazil these switches are difficult to find and really expensive. Nowadays I have a few pedals and some DPDT switches still to be used, but I´m felling more and more the will to have the LEDs. However, I don´t like throwing away perfectly good pieces and where I live right know is also expensive to get the 3PDTs (Quebec city, Canada).

So, I was wondering, although the millennium 2 is not true bypass, did anyone compared with true bypass and managed to see any noticeable differences? (tone suck)

I ask that because I probably have the pieces to make millenniums and add to these pedals that I already built, hence not needing to over expend on the 3PDTs.

Sorry if the question is dumb. I also couldn't´t find this specific answer in other topics.

Best,
Marcos

[R.G.]

So, I was wondering, although the millennium 2 is not true bypass, did anyone compared with true bypass and managed to see any noticeable differences? (tone suck)

1. The Millenium 2 is indeed true bypass, if wired correctly.
2. Correspondingly, there is no difference to true bypass, or tone changes.
3. It is possible to wire it up wrong if you try.
4. True bypass is a solution to a problem we mostly don't have any more. There are many non-true-bypass schemes that do not add noise, clicks, pops, or cause loss of treble.

[marcos_s_p]

So, I was wondering, although the millennium 2 is not true bypass, did anyone compared with true bypass and managed to see any noticeable differences? (tone suck)

1. The Millenium 2 is indeed true bypass, if wired correctly.
2. Correspondingly, there is no difference to true bypass, or tone changes.
3. It is possible to wire it up wrong if you try.
4. True bypass is a solution to a problem we mostly don't have any more. There are many non-true-bypass schemes that do not add noise, clicks, pops, or cause loss of treble.

Hmm, interesting. I guess I might have looked into an old information. But if you check in this page where it has millenium 1 and 2 explained it is mentioned that is not really a real real true bypass... He even calls it a clinton bypass (lol).

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/millenium/millen.htm

What am I missing here?

Btw is there a more updated scheme and wiring diagram for it?

Thanks!

Sent from my LG-H831 using Tapatalk

[antonis]

@marcos: (for your info only..)

Are you calling R.G. to check in a page created by himself..?? 

[bluebunny]

The M-1 and M-2 circuits shown on R.G.'s page are clearly true bypass: there's nothing but wire from input to output.  But any Millennium isn't really about "bypass", but about giving an indicator when you only have a DPDT footswitch.  (And "Clinton" is a precursor to the Millennium.)

[Juan Wayne]

Functionally, the Millenium is true bypass and no difference in sound exists between both solutions, for the exact reason bluebunny pointed out. It is a great way of having both true bypass and an LED with a DPDT switch.

I've been considering doing that to my CryBaby instead of ditching the old switch for a new one. Replacing it with a 3PDT almost feels like a lazy solution.

[marcos_s_p]

Functionally, the Millenium is true bypass and no difference in sound exists between both solutions, for the exact reason bluebunny pointed out. It is a great way of having both true bypass and an LED with a DPDT switch.

I've been considering doing that to my CryBaby instead of ditching the old switch for a new one. Replacing it with a 3PDT almost feels like a lazy solution.

That's exactly what I was thinking

@marcos: (for your info only..)

Are you calling R.G. to check in a page created by himself..?? 

Ohhh, I didn't realised it was the same person. I'm terribly sorry about that. And it was not so much to check the page, rather explain me because I'm no the best in electrics and circuits. You see I'm a biologist with musical aspirations lol. So, it wass more like "what am I missing and not understanding?" type of question. But I'm sorry anyway.

So, I was wondering, although the millennium 2 is not true bypass, did anyone compared with true bypass and managed to see any noticeable differences? (tone suck)

1. The Millenium 2 is indeed true bypass, if wired correctly.
2. Correspondingly, there is no difference to true bypass, or tone changes.
3. It is possible to wire it up wrong if you try.
4. True bypass is a solution to a problem we mostly don't have any more. There are many non-true-bypass schemes that do not add noise, clicks, pops, or cause loss of treble.

R.G. Again, sorry for the confusion. I hope you understand that I was inquiring about what I was missing because as I said earlier, I'm not too good with electronics. I hope you guys forgive me.

So, where can I find the most recent info on that (schematics and diagrams)? I'll certainly do it for my pedals!!!

Thanks again all for the help!!

[antonis]

I'm a biologist with musical aspirations

Maybe you're the most apropriate person for pedal "cloning"... 

[marcos_s_p]

I'm a biologist with musical aspirations

Maybe you're the most apropriate person for pedal "cloning"... 

LOL Loved the humor!! I actually work with cloning as well, so it was spot on!!!

[R.G.]

Hmm, interesting. I guess I might have looked into an old information. But if you check in this page where it has millenium 1 and 2 explained it is mentioned that is not really a real real true bypass... He even calls it a clinton bypass (lol).

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/millenium/millen.htm

What am I missing here?

I wondered if I had messed that up, and it's been so long since I wrote it (1999) or updated it (2004) that I had to refresh myself.

That page does correctly say the Mil 1 and Mil 2 are true bypass. However it links to this page:
http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/bypass/bypass.htm
where I discuss all the bypass techniques, including the Clinton and Rat bypasses, but distinguish them as different from the Millenium bypasses.

I suspect that the distinctions may not have been clearly enough stated. But at least I didn't completely mess it up. 

No harm, no foul, and no offense taken.

And I'm an engineer with guitar-playing aspirations. I suspect that you're better at actually playing music than I am.   

[marcos_s_p]

And I'm an engineer with guitar-playing aspirations. I suspect that you're better at actually playing music than I am.

R.G., I'm pretty sure that's not the case

So, I know I have some 1N4007 diodes and quite several transistors that are similar to 2n5952 (I guess they are BF245c, not sure though). Would those work for it? The resistor I need to calculate depending on the LED, right? Considering the V+ as 9V?

Sorry about the bomb question

Thanks again!!

[R.G.]

The only real subtlety in the Millenium bypass versions is the difference in high-leakage diodes, normal leakage diodes, and low-leakage diodes. These make all the difference.

JFETs and MOSFETs have ultra-low leakage gate-to-channel junctions. They have to. MOSFETS have as nearly zero leakage gate to channel as can be measured.  So for all intents and purposes, a JFET or MOSFET gate does not leak.

The JFET or MOSFET is biased by a high-leakage diode to V+. The term "high leakage" is relative. I first tried germanium diodes, as germanium has leakage of about 1000 times the leakage of silicon, in general. It turns out that germanium leaks too much for the Millenium to work right. The secret came to me when I remembered that some "high speed" diodes were made with gold atoms diffused into the junction to make recombination of charge carriers faster in the depletion region. [GAK!!!] It also made them leak about 10-100 times more than non-gold doped silicon junctions. Perfect for the Millenium. There is a group of "high speed" diodes that were first designed back when humans designed logic gates with diodes, resistors and transistors, and the diodes had to be FAST. These are the 1N914 and the later 1N4148 and their cousins. These diodes worked very well with the Millenium as a "constant current pullup" that let through much less current than a 10M resistor, but still some current, enough to bias a JFET or MOSFET on.

The "low leakage diode" in the Millenium has confused a lot of people. This part is an optional protection diode, which keeps electrical transients from killing the JFET or MOSFET. It must be the opposite of the high leakage diode, as it has to NOT eat all the current that the high leakage diode lets through. So a JFET gate junction or the base-collector junction of a normal bipolar transistor works well there.

I don't know where you're planning to use the 1N4007, but it may not work well for the pull up high leakage diode. Modern power diodes like the 1N4007 may have quite low leakage. It's worth trying, though. At worst, it won't leak enough and the thing worn't work. Yes, the resistor is for the LED. It's value is just made smaller til the LED is bright enough, or bigger if the LED is too bright.

[marcos_s_p]

Basically I though in using this transistor that I have as the transistor in the circuit (instead of BF170) and as a low leakage diode. Could it? It was only because I have them, but I can buy some as these parts are quite cheap.

The 1N4007 was supposed to be the other diode, but apparently for that it wouldn't´t fit as it is low leakage.

About the resistor, I just apply the equation based on which LED color (type) I´ll be using and considering the 9V, right? So, I can get the resistor to make the V drop correctly.

Thanks again!

[bluebunny]

About the resistor, I just apply the equation based on which LED color (type) I´ll be using and considering the 9V, right? So, I can get the resistor to make the V drop correctly.

You could do, but you'll end up with the lowest allowable resistor value - before the LED burns.  Something crazy like 390R.  You're better off just trying out a few values from around 1K to 10K (perhaps more, depending on your LEDs) to see which gives enough light to see on stage (or in your bedroom) and not too much to blind you.  I have a pile of something like 2K4 that I typically use.

[Rob Strand]

... but you'll end up with the lowest allowable resistor value - before the LED burns.

LOL.

I've got a few commercial effects fitted with blue lasers - darn annoying when you look directly down at them.

[rankot]

I bought a batch of RGB leds with an idea to use them for pedals and discovered that they can light as pedal indicator with 100k series resistor connected. Running them with usual 1-2k resistors are really pain in the eyes That means they give some light at 70uA, which is very nice!

[marcos_s_p]

Hmm, I see. I guess I'll try a few then

Thanks guys!