Hyper Light - the ring modulated delay pedal

[patrick398]

Finally got this one boxed up today, have been waiting on Tayda for what seems like forever. Had a few issues initially which Bluff kindly helped me work through. He even sent me a new board when we couldn't get anything out of the first one.  I added a psuedo random lfo through a trannie on a dpdt switch to vary the resistance on the delay pot or the frequency pot. Makes for ever more demented bleepy bloopy goodness. Super cool!

It's the guy in the middle with all the mis-matched knobs.



Here's a sound clip. Just recoded through a phone so not amazing but you get the idea. I started with the freq. pot all the way up so the carrier signal is inaudible and you get the hear to random lfo at work. The mix is pretty much maxed throughout, the carrier isn't that prominent when the mix is dialled back.

I think it's the delay being modulated at the beginning of the clip, then it switches to the freq. The glide pot is being adjusted periodically so sometimes it's a glitchy, jumpy lfo and other times a nice smooth sweep.

https://soundcloud.com/user-418904944/ring-mod-psycho-lfo

It's a great circuit to start with and really good fun to mess around with. I'd thoroughly recommend it!

[patrick398]

Also, the only switch i had was a centre on and i was too lazy to go and buy a centre off one. That means that the freq pot is wired to the top of the switch, the delay to the bottom, and because the middle position is making some connections i didn't even both to work out it makes some brutal white noise...which obviously i love.
Probably should have recorded that too...

[~arph]

Hey man, that sounds fantastic! so the LFO is set up it can modulate either Delay or Freq? or both? EDIT: I must learn to read 
I like it, maybe I'm going to try something like this too, but then with the clari(not) as a starting point, I like envelope modulation

[Kipper4]

That's sick Patrick.

[BetterOffShred]

I was going to solder mine up this week, is there something wrong with the V1 board?  I like the LFO idea.  I have one I whipped up for a nintendetar I never used, maybe I'll try that

[BluffChill]

Hey, your board should work fine - just one thing though, Patrick had more luck using a 1k resistor from 9v to LM567 V+ than 9V. I think it depends on the LM567CN you have. Mine works fine with 100k, so I'd be interested to hear more people's experience with it!

[BetterOffShred]

I'll fly a trimmer and let you know 

[patrick398]

Hey, your board should work fine - just one thing though, Patrick had more luck using a 1k resistor from 9v to LM567 V+ than 9V. I think it depends on the LM567CN you have. Mine works fine with 100k, so I'd be interested to hear more people's experience with it!

Yeah that was a weird one, took ages to debug. I only twigged after breadboarding a simple 567 noise circuit to check the ICs and noticed that it had 9v going straight in. On my hyper light board the 567 was only getting 0.1v or something. For me it wouldn't work with anything above 1k, not even 1k5.

[BluffChill]

I don't seem able to edit my original post so now I've sold a bunch of kits, here's a schematic for people to mess around with. Feedback welcome!

[BetterOffShred]

Well I finally got to the board and built it, and mine definitely wouldn't run with a 100k at R7.  I put in a 2k trimmer, the delay works when the voltage to the 567 is 9v, but you have to crank it down to about 5 before the ring mod kicks in.  My build has an ever present high pitched whistle that goes up in down with the frequency knob, and is changed by altering the voltage to the 567 with the trimmer.  Is this just the carrier ? Is there any way to mitigate it at all? I didn't hear this in either of the demos on this thread.  I tried about 6 different 567s and they all whistle.  .. anyway it's pretty rad and I'm having fun with it.  Any recommendations on how to do modulation? I mean what type of circuit ?

[patrick398]

Mine wouldn't work with anything other than a 1k. The whistle is normal i think, it's the carrier, though turning the frequency all the way up should make it inaudible but then you're left with just delay. EDIT: Just re-read your post, are you only able to get either delay or ring mod, not both?

For modulation I put an LFO on a switch to the delay pot and the frequency pot so i can select which one is modulated. Ordinarily you'd want to have a switch that bypasses the delay pot and puts the LFO between pins 6 and 3/4 if i remember correctly.
Look at the  schem for the echo base:



I used a pseudo random lfo for mine but the principal of LFO into transistor as variable resistor to the pt2399 is the same

[BetterOffShred]

I am able to get both at the same time, but it depends on how much voltage is going to the LM567.  Around 1k as you indicated everything works.      I will probably just put a 1k in there, that's what I'm dialing in on my trimmer anyway.   

I had the LFO from  Paul in the lab for the nintendetar built up, so I hooked it up to the frequency pot, and it didn't really do anything on either side that I could tell.  I hooked it up to the time pot, and it didn't really do anything, but if I turn the time pot almost all the way up, there is a sweet spot where it definitely is modulating the time.   I guess I need to understand the LFO portion of that schematic you linked.   I would need to run my LFO into a PNP as shown I guess..   I have a ken stone psycho LFO laying around too, that might be fun to try.   

Another option is to put an LDR in parallel with the time/freq pot, and then have the LFO drive a LED maybe?   I know it works on the logan 5...

Speaking of Logan 5.. (Dino has a build doc with schematic in the gallery) it looks like it's using a 100k resistor on the V+ path in series with a trimmer as well.. so I'm curious as to why both of our builds simply would not ring at 100k. .   The datasheet for these chips shows operational voltage between 3.5 and 8.5V, so I'm curious.. I may breadboard the Logan 5 and see what's happening there with 100k supply resistor.  .. -Brett

[duck_arse]

I can't get anything out of soundcloud, at any time, so I still haven't heard this working - but - I was messing with an "LM567" in a similar circuit, and it didn't sound like anything except a really annoying carrier tone. but, the spec sheet says the "LMC567", the cmos version of the chip, runs at twice the freq of the LM567, so maybe that's why I'm underwhelmed.

B.O.S. - are you using the cmos version? the LM567 is also meant to run at or below 5V supply, not 9V.

[Kipper4]

Care to share a link to this Logan 5 thing please?
I googled it and came up blank. Unless it's a heating circuit.

[BluffChill]

Pretty sure the Logan 5 has been scrubbed from the net for copyright reasons. I have a copy of the scheme I can send you when I get home.

I will also provide the board with the exact model number of the 567 I use. I have bought some others recently and have the same problems when not using my original model, so I'm going back to the drawing board and will keep you all updated!

Thanks all for your continued interest in this. Boards still available if anyone wants one!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BetterOffShred]

I can't get anything out of soundcloud, at any time, so I still haven't heard this working - but - I was messing with an "LM567" in a similar circuit, and it didn't sound like anything except a really annoying carrier tone. but, the spec sheet says the "LMC567", the cmos version of the chip, runs at twice the freq of the LM567, so maybe that's why I'm underwhelmed.

B.O.S. - are you using the cmos version? the LM567 is also meant to run at or below 5V supply, not 9V.

I am using a LM567CN, section 8.2 of the TI datasheet, Vcc Supply Voltage  Min 3.5V Max 8.5V
Mine does lots of ring mod, and the frequency works fine.  I think the board is actually operating correctly it does ring mod repeats, and you can change the delay characteristics with those controls.  The mix works fine too, though all the way up it seems to run away regardless of feedback knob position. 

I can't get anything out of soundcloud, at any time, so I still haven't heard this working - but - I was messing with an "LM567" in a similar circuit, and it didn't sound like anything except a really annoying carrier tone. but, the spec sheet says the "LMC567", the cmos version of the chip, runs at twice the freq of the LM567, so maybe that's why I'm underwhelmed.

B.O.S. - are you using the cmos version? the LM567 is also meant to run at or below 5V supply, not 9V.

No I am not using the Cmos version.   I am using the LM567CN from Tayda.
See section 8.2 of the datasheet.. That's where I was getting my voltage figures.   
ALso there's a build doc in the gallery under Dino's stuff for the Logan 5, it's a PDF and has the schematic. 
Im curious about the operation of this chip though, reading through the build doc for the Logan 5, it indicates that you tweak the voltage trimmer that's parallel with the 100k (R7 in the Hyperlight) to find a sweet spot for carrier noise and max volume.  As I indicated earlier, I was definitely able to change the noise level of the carrier with my trimmer, though I had to use the 2k and that's it.. not 100K + another 100K trimmer..  I'd like to get to the bottom of this
thanks for looking fellas, and thanks again for the board Bluff.  It's pretty fun
-Brett

[BetterOffShred]

I guess we need to know what Bluff built/designed his with.. LMC567, or LM567C 

I'll keep fooling around with the modulation!

[BluffChill]

OK, these are the LMC567CNs I used originally - I bought about 8 of these and sold them with kits and now have none left! They're also no longer stocked on Farnell:
http://uk.farnell.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&langId=44&urlRequestType=Base&partNumber=2496237&storeId=10151

You might be able to find some others elsewhere. I'm going to re-breadboard the entire thing and see what I can do. I'll keep you posted!

[BetterOffShred]

I bet that right there is the difference!  Lower current draw, same resistance..     I will see if I can Ebay up a couple.. Mouser only has the SMD joints. 
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmc567.pdf
Section 9.4.1 has the previsions to substitute the LMC567 for a LM567C, some cap changes, so I suppose I could just do these backwards to the circuit..

[BluffChill]

Yep, never even realised that was what it was! Bought them thinking they were regular old LM567. I will crack on!