How increase the quality of my pedals

[Elijah-Baley]

Hi!
I built more than twenty pedals, and some other stuff. I used to order from Tayda and Musikding, and, because this is just a hobby for me, I buy always the cheapest part: jacks, unpainted enclosures, caps, switches... I didn' care about high quality or prestigious parts.
But now I want to learn where worth increase the quality of the parts in my pedals.

- Resistor
I buy 1/4W metal film from tayda.

- Capacitor
Hot topic, I know. Musikding and Tayda have Wima for film caps; and both have different series of Panasonic and Nichicon as electrolytic. Then, ceramic or silver mica.
To buy the expensive caps will help to improve the quality of the sound? What series? What means "low impedance" in electrolytic capacitor?
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/10uf-50v-105c-aluminum-radial-electrolytic-capacitor.html

- Socket IC
I tried just the cheapest one from Tayda. Why the expensive should be better?

- Connectors
I buy DC jacks from Tayda (the cheapest ones, of course), and jacks open frame from Musikding (the cheapest ones). Should I buy Rean/Neutrik or Switchcraft? Why it should be better?

- Footswitch
I buy them from Tayda, the blue standard. There are also those with the gold plated solder lugs, just slightly cents in more, but it's worth?

- Enclosure
I settle with the cheapest natural enclosure of Musikding, sometime I polish them a bit with sandpaper and abrasive paste. I guess the Hammond enclosures have a more fine surface, in case I have to polish them, probably. I can't paint the enclosures by myself, I could buy the coloured enclosure from Musikding, I think those are ok.

- Led bezel
I could buy something better look, that's it.

- Knobs
The same thing about the knobs, but I wonder if Musikding sells the knobs with the same quality of Tayda or if those are better beside than expensive.

Thanks for your advices!

[ElectricDruid]

Something like this is always going to be a matter of taste to some degree, but with that caveat in place, here's my view.

I buy 1/4W metal film from tayda.

Metal film 1% resistors are accurate, low noise, and cheap.

- Capacitor
Hot topic, I know. Musikding and Tayda have Wima for film caps; and both have different series of Panasonic and Nichicon as electrolytic. Then, ceramic or silver mica.
To buy the expensive caps will help to improve the quality of the sound? What series? What means "low impedance" in electrolytic capacitor?
https://www.taydaelectronics.com/10uf-50v-105c-aluminum-radial-electrolytic-capacitor.html

It's possible to spend a lot of money on caps, but it isn't always worth it. I do use Wima polypropylene caps for places where it might matter like filters, but that's partly down to their close tolerance (for a cap). You can get Wima caps at 5% (or better sometimes) which helps your filter actually have the cutoff and Q it was designed for.
With electrolytics, low impedance/low ESR isn't really an issue for audio, but it can help in some power supply filtering jobs. I need low ESR caps for the internal core voltage on the DigiDelay processor chip, for example - but that's a microprocessor application.

- Socket IC
I tried just the cheapest one from Tayda. Why the expensive should be better?

Turned pin sockets last longer than the folded-leaf ones if you pull chips in and out a lot. If you just stick them in and leave them, I don't think there's much difference. For long term reliability, solder your chips in directly. The extra connection of a chip's pins in the socket is a place where dirt and corrosion can affect the electrical properties.

- Connectors
I buy DC jacks from Tayda (the cheapest ones, of course), and jacks open frame from Musikding (the cheapest ones). Should I buy Rean/Neutrik or Switchcraft? Why it should be better?

Now we're getting to the stuff that I think really matters. You can upgrade the electronic bits of your pedals, and you won't really hear any difference. But the mechanical components get stamped on, twisted, and have jacks banged in and out all the time. Cheap parts will fail earlier than better ones. That said, I think there's a "name brand premium" attached to Switchcraft and Neutrik. How much better they are than other good-quality-but-not-as-expensive parts I don't know. Not much, I suspect.

- Footswitch
I buy them from Tayda, the blue standard. There are also those with the gold plated solder lugs, just slightly cents in more, but it's worth?

The standard Taiwan-made blue 3PDT's aren't bad. Plating the contacts with gold does nothing important. It won't be corrosion on the contacts that causes problems. Likely failures are inside the mechanism from repeated stamping, not anything to do with the pins.
It's not a popular view, but true-bypass is not the most reliable switching method long term. One reason Ibanez and Boss moved to FET-bypass and used keyboard switches to do the switching is because it eliminates a major point of failure.

- Enclosure
I settle with the cheapest natural enclosure of Musikding, sometime I polish them a bit with sandpaper and abrasive paste. I guess the Hammond enclosures have a more fine surface, in case I have to polish them, probably. I can't paint the enclosures by myself, I could buy the coloured enclosure from Musikding, I think those are ok.

Since when did an enclosure ever stop working? If you can get a finish you're happy with, keep doing it.

- Led bezel
I could buy something better look, that's it.

Exactly.

- Knobs
The same thing about the knobs, but I wonder if Musikding sells the knobs with the same quality of Tayda or if those are better beside than expensive.

There are some cheap knobs that feel great, and there are some expensive knobs that feel a bit cheap. And there are expensive knobs that feel expensive! But this is really a matter of taste.

If you want to improve the long-term reliability, I'd upgrade the jacks, switches, and pots, and make sure you're building stuff that's well-designed and doesn't push components into situations that they're not happy about. If you want to upgrade the aesthetics, then concentrate on those elements; box, knobs, LED, paint finishing, etc.
Depends a bit what aspect of "quality" you're after.

HTH,
Tom

[italianguy63]

I will share some of my beliefs with you, of course everyone has their own, and their own style of building.  I think it ends up kind of like our "fingerprint" of our work.  I think it is cool when someone can look at a pedal, or an etch, or PCB, and say "Hey, that looks like *insert name here*'s work."

Again, this thread will probably morph around a lot because everybody has different ways of looking at things...

I've been doing this about 4 years now.  And, I've learned things for sure.  I started out trying to keep costs to an absolute minimum... and sometimes that bites you.  I will just list some random stuff for your review.

Jacks-- Yes. get better quality jacks.  I use open style Nuetriks most.  If you buy them in bulk-- you can get the price point down through Mouser.  Not much more expensive than cheap ones.  And cheap ones twist, break, short, and the tangs fatigue.  Definitely something to upgrade.
Also, I use closed box jacks sometimes.  I used the Tayda ones, and they are cheap and the contacts flimsy.  Use Switchcraft instead.  When you get one in your hands and compare them, there is a big difference.

Resistors.  Tayda is great.  The leads are thin, but it really doesn't matter.  At a penny each, great!  I use carbon, and metal film depending on what circuit I am building.

Capacitors.  Cheap Chong electos are great for PS and filtering.  In audio circuits, I have gone to Nichicon or Panasonic.  There is a whole nuther thread going on about this right now elsewhere.  I used CBB metalized film caps (they are very similar to the ECQ series of Panasonic), but way cheaper.  I too like WIMA box caps, although pricey.  I'm sure the Tayda box caps are completely adequate.
If you need specialty caps (silver mica) for example, you just have to order them from some seller that has them.

IC Socket.  I use the machined more expensive one.  But, there are different schools of thought here too.  Many prefer the cheaper one.

If you use battery snaps... don't buy from Tayda.  The wire is super thin and crappy.  Buy better ones with heavier wire.

Footswitches, enclosures, knobs, etc.  I think Tayda is just fine.  I refuse to pay like $1.50 for a knob.  I think that is crazy.  But, what do I know?  Of course I have to get a plug in here for Aron.  I use Small Bear for all the specialty type parts I can't normally find.  Specialty knobs, Pots, ICs, etc..  Small Bear is a great resource!

Led bezels... I just use the metal ones usually.  I used to use the plastic ones, but for a couple pennies, just put a nicer look to your work.

Anyway.. that's some quick thoughts from me.

MC

[italianguy63]

I have also moved to PCB mounted, smooth shaft potentiometers whenever possible.

MC

[Elijah-Baley]

Thank you, guys!
I got everything.

I didn't mention the pots. I buy them fromt Tayda, Alpha with the isolation cap, it is very useful. I thought those are ok. Am I wrong?

[italianguy63]

Thank you, guys!
I got everything.

I didn't mention the pots. I buy them fromt Tayda, Alpha with the isolation cap, it is very useful. I thought those are ok. Am I wrong?

They are fine.

[ElectricDruid]

Thank you, guys!
I got everything.

I didn't mention the pots. I buy them fromt Tayda, Alpha with the isolation cap, it is very useful. I thought those are ok. Am I wrong?

+ 1 agree with ItalianGuy. Taiwan Alpha pots are probably the most widely used pots on pedals, so no, you're not wrong. They're a good quality part. The US Alpha ones are probably popular over there, but I dunno. They're supposed to be good too.

T.

[thermionix]

US Alpha?  Does such a thing exist?  Even CTS pots are made in Taiwan, though the company is HQ'd in Indiana.

Switchcraft are still US-made.  Some Sprague caps.  Not much else.

[diffeq]

I have also moved to PCB mounted, smooth shaft potentiometers whenever possible.

MC

9mm box-type or regular round with angled leads? Can't find them anywhere locally.   

[italianguy63]

I have also moved to PCB mounted, smooth shaft potentiometers whenever possible.

MC

9mm box-type or regular round with angled leads? Can't find them anywhere locally.   

I use both.  Tayda for most, Small Bear for values I can't get at Tayda.

[Elijah-Baley]

I'm curious about a the various switching method.

FET-bypass Boss style
I still didn't find out some clear information about it. But with this method I get necessarily an always on buffer? What kind of switch I'd need

I found other switching methods:

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.it/2014/06/soft-latch-relay-bypass-daughterboard.html

https://www.musikding.de/Nope-Relay-Bypass-kit

http://diy.thcustom.com/shop/optotronik_kit/

http://diy.thcustom.com/shop/miniature-relay-true-bypass-kit/

These are more expensive, of course, but could be "better"?

[italianguy63]

I'm curious about a the various switching method.

FET-bypass Boss style
I still didn't find out some clear information about it. But with this method I get necessarily an always on buffer? What kind of switch I'd need

I found other switching methods:

http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.it/2014/06/soft-latch-relay-bypass-daughterboard.html



https://www.musikding.de/Nope-Relay-Bypass-kit

http://diy.thcustom.com/shop/optotronik_kit/

http://diy.thcustom.com/shop/miniature-relay-true-bypass-kit/

These are more expensive, of course, but could be "better"?

This:

http://effectslayouts.blogspot.com/2015/06/millenium-2-bypass.html

I have daughterboards of this configured for a 1590A.  Makes more room.  Works wonderfully.

MC

[Elijah-Baley]

Yes, the millennium bypass. Thanks.
In the link we can read «I recently purchased some DPDT footswitches. [...] I found that the "click" made by these DPDTs was far quieter than the "kuchunk" made by regular 3PDTs.»
But if I dont find these quieter DPDT footswitches I think the standard true bypass with 3DPT is easier and quick.
I can't see an improvement.

[Ice-9]

Pretty much agree with everyone's input here, my biggest thing on quality would be to use the better hardware (switches, jacks etc) but not silly priced ones, and not to use any sockets for IC's and transistors at all, solder them in.

With reference to Taiwan Alpha pots , and Alpha pots. The two companies have no connection with each other, Taiwan Alpha pots are good and easy to source but Alpha pots do feel a little better quality to me.

[ElectricDruid]

US Alpha?  Does such a thing exist?

This is one I meant:

http://alphapotentiometers.net

Often confused with Taiwan Alpha, but Alpha US use a Greek Alpha as their logo, whereas Taiwan Alpha use a lower case "a" in a circle.

[Passaloutre]

I have also moved to PCB mounted, smooth shaft potentiometers whenever possible.

MC

Using PCBs and board-mounted pots really helps your builds look and feel more professional than vero and flying leads. I don't think I'll ever go back to vero for anything more than a one-knob job. I never want to wire four pots and jam a vero board into a tiny enclosure again. The PCBs are also quicker to build and involve less troubleshooting than vero. The downside is you're limited to circuits that someone out there thought worth selling PCBs for. But I'm usually able to find something close enough to what I want (there's like dozens of PCB retailers), and I can generally mod it to my own desires.

Of course, my builds now cost $30-50 (professional PCBs and powder-coated enclosures being the bulk of that cost) instead of the $10-20 that they cost with vero board and hand-painted enclosures. It's worth it to me to have a professional-looking pedal that also won't break down at a show.

Mammoth's "Pro" 3PDTs are the nicest feeling stomp switches I've found, and they're pretty cheap compared to the Alphas. Again, the tiny PCBs for the back of the 3PDT makes connecting your LED and input/output wires loads easier, and has increased my satisfaction with my pedals greatly.

[thermionix]

US Alpha?  Does such a thing exist?

This is one I meant:

http://alphapotentiometers.net

Often confused with Taiwan Alpha, but Alpha US use a Greek Alpha as their logo, whereas Taiwan Alpha use a lower case "a" in a circle.

So it's a US parts distributor named Alpha.  The pics I looked at were all computer renderings, but looked very similar to Taiwan Alpha pots.  Maybe not the same, but I highly doubt US-made.

[amptramp]

Adding some things that haven't been suggested yet:

So far, no one has mentioned how the board is mounted to the enclosure.  Some people just "float" the board on wiring but I doubt this is a good idea for long-term satisfaction.  If you have wide-skirted knobs, you can actually use standoffs with mounting screws under the skirt without it being visible.  Otherwise, JB weld the standoffs in place or use adhesive board mounts.

Establish a set of derating rules that only permit you to use a percentage of the ratings of a device.  Probably not an issue with 9 VDC items but at higher voltages, do not use parts at their rated voltage.  A 15 volt electrolytic is OK for a 9 VDC circuit (60% derating) but a 10 VDC one (90% derating) would be pushing your luck and shortening the life of the device, especially since a 9 volt battery starts at about 9.6 volts and a wall-wart is subject to voltage surges.

Use the anti-rotation tangs or washers on pots and jacks.  The pot tangs can hide under the knob skirt or an extra internal plate can be made with the holes but watch the thickness - some pots have only a few threaded turns and any extra thickness can mean they do not mount properly.  Keeping these devices from rotating when they should be rigidly mounted is paramount to getting long life.

[Elijah-Baley]

With veroboard is not easy fit the standoffs. The trick will be cut a larger board, but it could create confusion working on it, and, of course, take up more space.
I tried to use one (or even two) solid core wires between the board and footswitch or a pot if the board had much space to float, so the board has less chance to move.

The washer you meant, amptramp, are these? https://www.musikding.de/Contact-washer

[italianguy63]

Adding some things that haven't been suggested yet:

So far, no one has mentioned how the board is mounted to the enclosure.  Some people just "float" the board on wiring but I doubt this is a good idea for long-term satisfaction.  If you have wide-skirted knobs, you can actually use standoffs with mounting screws under the skirt without it being visible.  Otherwise, JB weld the standoffs in place or use adhesive board mounts.

Establish a set of derating rules that only permit you to use a percentage of the ratings of a device.  Probably not an issue with 9 VDC items but at higher voltages, do not use parts at their rated voltage.  A 15 volt electrolytic is OK for a 9 VDC circuit (60% derating) but a 10 VDC one (90% derating) would be pushing your luck and shortening the life of the device, especially since a 9 volt battery starts at about 9.6 volts and a wall-wart is subject to voltage surges.

Use the anti-rotation tangs or washers on pots and jacks.  The pot tangs can hide under the knob skirt or an extra internal plate can be made with the holes but watch the thickness - some pots have only a few threaded turns and any extra thickness can mean they do not mount properly.  Keeping these devices from rotating when they should be rigidly mounted is paramount to getting long life.

That is why I have gone to PCB mounted pots when possible.  It makes the build cleaner.  It affixes the PCB, and usually standoffs are no longer needed.  And, the process of tinning, installing, heatshrinking, etc. of wire is eliminated.  It makes build time and expense better.  Of course there is a little more back-office work needed to make sure you get the right components.  Troubleshooting is easier I think too.

Recently, I revisited all the products I produce, and went through and did PCB board revisions to "upgrade" to affixed pots.  Again, a bit more work-- but worth it in the long run.

When I need standoffs, I generally just JB Weld one to the enclosure as suggested.

I too use "small footprint" 3PDT daughterboards to affix wires.  After ruining a few $3 switches because I overheated the epoxy, I just quit.  Switched gears and went the daughter-board route.  Again, Small Bear has a nice tiny one.

MC