Two-layer PCB prototyping service

[vigilante397]

I posted about this a while ago and there was enough interest that I decided to go ahead with it. I was going to start a FS thread but I'm not actually selling a product so it seemed kinda weird.

Anyway, I'm ready to start offering rapid prototyping services for single and double layer PCBs milled by CNC machine. I've improved my process to the point where I can get very consistent results in reasonable time. I hate choosing prices for things, but I was thinking $4 per board. Is that reasonable? I can take any standard Gerber files, or I can take Eagle, Diptrace, or Altium project files and get the Gerbers out myself. Here are the requirements for boards:

• can only do top and bottom layer (pretty obvious)
• no through-hole plating, so traces have to be routed (by you) so they can be soldered i.e. no IC or electrolytic cap connections on the top layer
• All text should be set to super small width (.01mm, 0.1 mil, etc) for readability
• Recommended hole sizes are: 0.7mm (vias), 1.0mm (general pads), 1.5mm (on board pots), 3mm (mounting holes) as those are the drill sizes I use
  
• if planes (power, ground, etc) are used I recommend either direct connect or relief connect with 40mil (1mm) connections
• minimum trace width is 20(ish)mil or 0.5mm, recommend 40mil or 1mm
• minimum pad/trace spacing is 5(ish)mil or 0.125mm, recommend 10mil or 0.25mm
• board outlines can only be rectangular (software issue, may fix it later)
• must fit on 4" x 6" copper clad as that is what I buy (should be fine for most stompbox needs)
• Please do not ask me to mill any "free for non-commercial use" boards like layouts from Tonepad, Madbean, GGG, etc.

Boards will (unless I get super busy) probably be milled out the same day the files are received and be mailed the next day (because I don't have that many hobbies). I will mail them the semi-standard way, thrown in an envelope with a forever stamp, as I've never had any problem mailing PCB's that way. I'm not really sure if I could do international, though I think I still have some international forever stamps, so we'll see.

Anyway, here are some examples of a few boards I've done:

Zendrive, made last night:





Power supply, made a few weeks ago. My first (and last) attempt at double sided milling on a single-sided board. Milling directly on FR-4 is hard because it's not conductive so I can't auto-level the surface. I can still do single-sided PCB's on double-sided copper clad.





Development board shield I made for work. They wanted me to wait 6 weeks to order a fabbed board so I could make a simple prototype. I said no thanks





So anyway, let me know what you think or if you have any questions, and I guess message me if you are interested. I usually leave the forum open at work (I get a ~2 minute break every time I need to re-compile my code ) so I should be able to respond to stuff pretty quick.

[italianguy63]

Yay!  SushiCrow!!!

MC

[bluebunny]

I was thinking $4 per board. Is that reasonable?

Noooo!  I would say that less than a dime would be much more reasonable!  You're used to being whipped...   

I get a ~2 minute break every time I need to re-compile my code

I guess that depends on how often you need to re-compile.  How often do you write bugs?   

Seriously, this is a cool service, Nathan, and deserving of a sausage or two. 

[Kipper4]

Very cool Nathan.
I have some designs in the pipeline.

[vigilante397]

How often do you write bugs?

First of all, they're "features"

The problem was I wrote 90% of the program as a test and it worked great. Then I added the last 10% and about 30% of the previous stuff stopped working. So I make small changes one at a time, and I recompile very often.

I have some designs in the pipeline.

Excellent  It looks like I still have some international forever stamps, so I should be able to send boards overseas as well. I've only ever mailed boards to the UK a couple times before, but they got there without any problems.

[suryabeep]

Hey man, this looks awesome! Great job!
I don't want to detract from your service, but allPCB does 10 boards (with bits and bobs) with 1 week international DHL shipping for about $15. Just putting it out there. Yes I know they're Chinese and have lower labor costs and whatnot... please don't hate me

[vigilante397]

Hey man, this looks awesome! Great job!
I don't want to detract from your service, but allPCB does 10 boards (with bits and bobs) with 1 week international DHL shipping for about $15. Just putting it out there. Yes I know they're Chinese and have lower labor costs and whatnot... please don't hate me

I'm aware of this and there is no hate here there are plenty of companies out there that can do professionally fabbed boards around that price and anytime I plan on building more than one of something that's absolutely what I go for. They do a great job at a great price.

But if I just want one of something, or I haven't verified a layout and want to verify it before I send it off for fabrication I go to the CNC. That's why I'm calling it a "prototyping service."

As I have mentioned, I'm not trying to get rich off this, I'm not trying to start a business. I'm just offering it as a service (charging enough to cover material costs and a stamp/envelope) in case anyone is interested. It wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if no one sends me anything. I'm just trying to help

[Beo]

Nathan, one thing I would be interested in is a description of your setup, lessons learned from your foray into CNC'ing, and perhaps recommendations on how to start on our own setup... with today's equipment offerings and availability. I'd also be interested in your thoughts on using CNC for enclosure engraving (I'm thinking the leveling process would be hard on the CNC/bits for an aluminum enclosure).
Thanks!
Travis

[vigilante397]

Nathan, one thing I would be interested in is a description of your setup, lessons learned from your foray into CNC'ing, and perhaps recommendations on how to start on our own setup... with today's equipment offerings and availability. I'd also be interested in your thoughts on using CNC for enclosure engraving (I'm thinking the leveling process would be hard on the CNC/bits for an aluminum enclosure).
Thanks!
Travis

I could absolutely do that should that be a separate thread? I know there have been a bunch of CNC threads in the past, but I would be more than happy to start another about my current setup and lessons I've learned.

CNC engraved enclosures look great. I love them. Most of the pedals on my board right now are CNC engraved, and the auto-level feature works fantastic on bare aluminum boxes. Maybe I should be offering CNC enclosure engraving services?

CNC machines are one of those things like 3D printers. They were super expensive initially and out of reach of hobbyists, then the technology and materials got more refined and the price dropped significantly. My 7" x 7" setup cost me about $700 a few years ago, but you can get a similar quality, larger size machine for about $500. The big thing that's improved the quality of my builds has been better software (all of it free).

So when I get home from church (typing this all on my phone right now) I will post more info on my setup and some pictures of engraved enclosures as well.

[Beo]

I'd suggest a separate thread, many will be interested so a new Subject text could help attract eyes. Glad you want to share. DIY CNC is evolving just like 3D printing, as you say, and many google hits show outdated info. 10K$ equipment may be needed if you are starting a business, but the cost and learning curve has dropped for the casual DIYer. Would love to learn from your more recent experience. Thanks!

[vigilante397]

So I was going to take an hour or so yesterday putting together pictures and videos and information so I could start a lovely thread with everything I've learned about CNC machines as they apply to stompboxes. Then I remembered it was mothers' day, and figured my time was probably better spent calling my mother and making dinner for my wife So I'll throw some stuff together this evening when I get home from work.

As a side note, with PCB's being one of those things that everyone who wants PCB's pretty much already has a way to get them, there may not be much need for my services. But I just received a PM asking if I had considered doing amp faceplates, and admittedly I hadn't. Is there much demand for that around here? And additionally, does anyone know where one could get thin aluminum sheets that would work well for amp faceplates? I've done a couple faceplates on my $200 laser engraver, but I do think my CNC could do a cleaner and much more permanent job. Any thoughts?

[Kipper4]

Euro Rack Faceplates.
Synth faceplates.
Rackmount cases.
Blanks.
Custom Studio Blanks.

Didn't the pink one say you could get Aluminium at lowes or home depot?

[vigilante397]

Euro Rack Faceplates.
Synth faceplates.
Rackmount cases.
Blanks.
Custom Studio Blanks.

Didn't the pink one say you could get Aluminium at lowes or home depot?

Maybe, I think I remember something like that. I just asked the guy who gave me the aluminum for my previous faceplates, and he informed me that it was aluminum siding for rain gutters. I'll see if I have any more of that lying around and see how my CNC does on it and report back.

[tonight, we ride]

Very cool of you to offer these service to the forum!

Do you have any plans to do enclosure etching?? I've wanted to get into DIY CNC just for that ability.

[vigilante397]

Do you have any plans to do enclosure etching??

I've thought about that too. It's looking like there may be more demand for enclosures and faceplates than PCBs, so I could see that happening

If I were to offer enclosure etching, what would be the best way to do it? Would I buy a bunch of blank enclosures, engrave them and send them to people? Would people mail me an enclosure, I would engrave it and mail it back? What would be the best way to do it?

[tonight, we ride]

Do you have any plans to do enclosure etching??

I've thought about that too. It's looking like there may be more demand for enclosures and faceplates than PCBs, so I could see that happening

If I were to offer enclosure etching, what would be the best way to do it? Would I buy a bunch of black enclosures, engrave them and send them to people? Would people mail me an enclosure, I would engrave it and mail it back? What would be the best way to do it?

I would argue that the best way to approach it would be whatever works best for your workflow, especially if this is something that you aren't doing as a business, but rather as a contribution to the forum.

Maybe the best thing to do would be to setup for specific enclosure sizes that you typically use. If you have enclosures on-hand for your typical use you could source them out at a small profit (to fund your own enclosure stock), otherwise the burden is on them to send you an enclosure that fits with your jig/mounting?

Special cases outside of the norm cost extra for a setup fee or something along those lines... shoot, this is starting to sound like a business.