Which company makes the best tubes?

[zonta]

Sovtek, Tesla, Sylvania, Philips,etc...

Btw, is Harma any good?

[bwanasonic]

Sovtek, Tesla, Sylvania, Philips,etc...

Btw, is Harma any good?

To the best of my knowledge, Harma does not make tubes, but selects and rebadges current production tubes. Sylvania and Philips no longer make current production tubes. Of the current production tubes from Russia/ China/ Yugoslavia (the only places still making them) , it would depend on which type of tube you need (12AX7 type preamp, or 6l6, EL34, El84 power tubes) and which kind of amp you are putting them in to answer which is *best*.  None of them are as reliable as I would like them to be. If you are willing to pay more, NOS tubes from American and European makers might be something to look into.  It's also usually worthwhile to pay a few extra bucks to a dealer who is actually going to test and select decent specimens of the tubes you order ( like Harma).

Kerry M

[The Tone God]

I'm just going to make the distinction that by saying "makes" you mean a current production tubes as oppossed to "made" which would be NOS. Also by saying "best", which is typically subjective, you mean toughest and decent sounding.

There is no one company that makes the best tube overall. It depends on which tube you are looking for. IMHO when it comes to power tubes (6L6, EL34, 6550, KT88, etc.) Svetlanas are the best.

For preamps tubes thats more of a toss up. I don't think there is one company that makes geat preamps tube across the board. It really depends on what your looking for. I can say that I'm not big on preamp tubes from China and most the models from Russia.

Andrew

[zonta]

NOS tubes...What the hell are they guys? Can you please explain me? Thanks.

[Ed G.]

NOS tubes...What the hell are they guys? Can you please explain me? Thanks.

NOS=New Old Stock. New as in unused, out-of-production tubes that have been sitting in warehouses or what-have-you.
I've purchased a set of NOS 7581's from this guy and I found his prices to be very good, he matches, tests and stands behind his tubes:
http://www.nebsnow.com/LordValve
Some people on the newsgroups consider him to be an a-hole, but he just flames the ignorant people. On the phone, he's very knowledgeable and nice.
I've been wanting to try the 7025 Silver Special from him. It's supposed to be a higher-gain preamp tube for the first spot, I think he said he put one in Derek Trucks' super reverb and it sounded great.

[zonta]

ok clear now. thanks.

btw nos guys are very, very expensive.  :shock:

[Peter Snowberg]

NOS = New Old Stock

These are tubes that were made a long time ago, but they sat on shelves or in boxes for years. The benefits of these tubes are HUGE. They generally have much better construction than new parts and often they make use of chemicals that are impractical or impossible to use today in the same place.

"Best" can mean many things.... Some sound the best for tonality, some are best at being low in microphonics, some are best at lifespan, some are best at consistency while aging, some resist rough handling, and the list continues.

For current power tubes, I love everything I've heard from Svetlana. These are some of the "best" tubes in my opinion. I do not like the Sovtek 5881/6L6 units I've heard (all from over 3 years ago), and to top things off, they are neither 5881s or 6L6s, but they are "close enough for Rock & Roll". I LOVE the Sylvania STR387s.

If you put STR387s in a new Fender that came with Sovtek 5881s, the tone will improve a HUGE amount. Replace the cheap Chinese 12A_7 tubes with Ei/Tesla/new Sovtek and you will have a totally new amplifier.

Sonically, Sovtek 5881 + Chinese 12AX7 = GARBAGE.

For EL34s, nothing can touch ITT EL34s produced in the former East Germany. These are often called Seimens tubes, but to my understanding they were not made by Seimens at all.

For preamp tubes, some of the recent Sovtek tubes (re-branded tubes from at least two factories) are really good (12AT7LPS). I don't really like the Sovteks 12AX7__ tubes from a few years ago. Old Tesla 12AX7s are one of my favorites for cleaner tones. I have not listened to their current production, now under the name "J.J.".  My hands-down favorite for tone were Ei tubes from a few years ago, but their filaments were not very good and they had trouble with microphonics. They now make tubes with gold plated pins and hopefully the construction had improved all around. I have never liked and Chinese 12AX7s that I have listened to, but I have been very pleased with Chinese 12AU7 and AT7s.

IMO, some Sylvania/Philips tubes are some of the best ever made. They can be VERY costly as a result.

In the end you must select the tubes based on individual performance and not by brand if you want the best tone. Only a taste test in your circuit will tell you. Many "brands" are only a stamp on other tubes. Some old RCA tubes were actually made by Mullard.

-Peter

[idlefaction]

it really is worth investing in a bunch of tubes and swapping them...  i have about ten or so 12ax7s from various people, and spend a while every now and then swapping them out to see what i like where.

atm i have a sovtek 12ax7wxt+ in the preamp, a sovtek 12ax7lp in the phase inverter, and jj EL84s - i have some nos mullard el84s which i like more but i'm scared of breaking them so i'm waiting till i've bullet-proofed the amp a bit more.

i accidentally put the pre and pi tubes in the other way round last band practise and it sounded awful!  it really does make a difference.

mmmm NOS.   :twisted:

[The Tone God]

btw nos guys are very, very expensive.  :shock:

Most of the time this can be true but there are some exceptions. One that springs to mind are NOS JAN 12AT7s. Since there is still a large supply of them they can be as cheap and sometimes cheaper then production models and sound good. I don't see any reason not to use atleast NOS JAN for your 12AT7 purposes.

Sovtek 5881 + Chinese 12AX7 = GARBAGE.

I agree with that statement. Too bad this is what most production amps ship with.

Andrew

[petemoore]

I've only changed tubes like four times and the only time i could detect any amount of 'betterment' was with Gold Lions I got.
 All the other changes were to Groove tubes and Svetlana's. I concur that Svets clearly classify as better sounding than those China ones or even Sovteks. I think the Svetlana's are the best choice for power tubes,   pre-amp tubes I've only noticed a [worthy of notation] difference when one gets microphonic or fails to amplify extended range of frequencies and only slight differences in sound that were deemed not big enough to apply any kind of definitive 'better or worse' comments.
 I read that Major Mfr.s test tubes in amps [say Eric's summer concerts etc.] the re-package them as 'new' tested tubes, not exactly my definition of 'new'.
 I've heard amps that just sound great with no tube in it less than 5 years old. I've heard other amps [Bill Boogie for ex.] that seem to eat em, especially that overdriven pre-amp tube for the [whatever they call it drive or master vol] distortion efkt. I was never a fan of this technique...some swear by it, they get to sounding ragged very fast {IMO]. I like my tubes on 'simmer' not on 'burn', if you're using that channel of an amp which distorts [usually a 12az7] a tube, carry spares,
kool tones can be found distorting pre-amp tubes, I never liked em that much, used the one in a Legend amp for a while though.

[ErikMiller]

Svetlanas have a great rep, but according to the Antique Electronics web site, the tubes made in that factory now go by the name/logo "Winged C."

I had them send me a quartet of Winged C 6L6's, and they were indeed all that.

The tubes now marketed as "Svetlana" are made in a different factory, I think they said the one that does Sovteks. New Sensor got control of the name in the US.

Nice deals can be had on the Winged C's probably because they are still trying to build the brand's reputation.

[gtrmac]

You can read a lot of reviews and comparisons on new and NOS tubes here:
http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/

Myles Rose also is the moderator of the guitar BB at //www.musicplayer.com

Groove Tubes also has a new production copy of the GE 6L6 that has gotten good reviews in several places but it's expensive. I use JJ EL84's in my 18watt marshall clone and they sound good to me. I'm using Electro-Harmonix 6V6's in my Deluxe and that amp sounds great too. I'd probably spring for NOS there if I had the extra money though.

[zonta]

thank you to all who replied. that was of great help and now i DO have an idea about what i am after.

i will be buying a Marshall EL84 20/20 pa in  a few weeks  and  doing the research for its tube replacement since the stock tubes in the unit would be likely to suck.

according to the tests at the link that gtrmac has posted, Mullard is the winner. do you guys agree this?

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/el34.html

EL84/ MULLARD
The Mullard excelled in my initial test and in the tests with Greg and Brian. They provided crisp ringing sustain and huge tight bottom end with clarity which sounded larger than life. This gave the impression of space and immense detail. It never seemed to lose control even when the treble boost was added. Indeed it seemed to get more punchy and dynamic. Bass, middle and treble where all in proportion. We all agreed this was a great valve.

EL84 Test Conclusion

The Mullard was the valve that all three of us agreed was the best overall valve.

and one last question:


do the ecc83's in the phase inverter effect the tone? i mean their musicality...the mullard brand ecc83's are sold for 25 pounds.  :shock:
does it worth installing mullards there or just a sovtek would do since they do not effect the tonality of the amp. or do they? :?:  :lol:

thanks again guys. i feel much confident now and i owe this to you.

cheers.

[brett]

I've only changed tubes like four times

Heck, someone posted here a while ago and reckoned that 30 years is a reasonable life :shock:.

Anyway, my questions are; Do I wait for my current valves to rattle themselves to death before I replace them? (they're fairly bad at the moment - The old MusicMan amp gets a kind of "death wobbles" oscillation if I play too loud, especially around the 7th fret.  The valves sound pretty much like a tambourine.)  If I wait for the valves to fall apart, can it damage my amp somehow?  I recently got some Electro-Harmonix valves (CA7s, which I think are the same as 6l6 or EL34s or something) cheap (about $10 each).  What's the consensus on E-H?  I've also heard thet they are re-badged Sovteks (which are supposed to be ok, I think).

Any and all advice accepted gratefully.

[Peter Snowberg]

Sovtek = EH = rebranded Reflector (Saratov, Russia). I've heard a couple may be from another factory.

Sovtek is just a brand name owned by Electro-Harmonix.

Be cautious of EH tubes. They substitute designs at will, renumbering them to western tube numbers that close, but NOT the same. You are pretty safe with "standard" numbers run at medium voltages, but watch out when you start talking high voltage or when using rare tubes like the 7027. You may have to bias your amp a bit differently.

How often to change tubes.... Here's a good analogy: If you don't play hard, you can keep the same set of strings on a guitar for years. They'll be dull and lifeless after a while, but they'll last and still make notes. The same goes for tubes. Power tubes work a LOT harder than preamp tubes. The preamp tubes can last a very long time with great tone, but they do get dull eventually.

Oh, and 6CA7 = EL34. These are true pentodes. The 6L6 is a Beam Tetrode. Different tubes with similar pinouts. *IF* the amp is wired correctly, you can swap between families by just re-biasing. 6L6 amps often use unused pins as mounting points for screen grid resistors. An EL34 placed in a socket wired like that will give you fireworks.

Whatever you do, it's a good idea to add an HT fuse to your amp if it doesn't have one already.

-Peter

[puretube]

afaik, EH is not re-branded, but newly re-designed.
nonetheless mfctd. in Russia, and selected.....

[Jered]

I can say without a doubt, Telefunken and Mullards sound better than any tubes I've ever used, and I've tried a lot of different tubes.
 Jered

[puretube]

that`s made, again;
next to Telefunken, "Siemens" needs to be mentioned...

[Paul Marossy]

These are my opinions.


New manufacture power tubes:

6L6GC- Svetlana
EL-34- J&J

Sovtek 5881's are pretty rugged, and can take a lot of abuse, but IMO, they suck tone wise. A NOS Tung-Sol might not sound that bad, I never heard of anyone using them, though. Sovtek's power tubes reliability is questionable. Seems like every quad set I've had from them has had one bad tube in it. The Sovtek EL-34s are horrible, ratty sounding.

J&J is the resurrected Tesla factory in Czechoslavakia.

Some people really like Ruby Tubes, made in China. No experience with them.


NOS Power Tubes: (6L6GC, EL-34)

Mullard, RCA, Sylvania, Phillips and others.


New manufacture preamp tubes:

12AX7- Svetlana or J&J, maybe EI
Sovtek Hi-Mu 12AX7LPS's are satisfactory, but not as good as NOS.
EI tubes are made in Yugoslavia to Phillips specs, using old Phillips equipment.


NOS Preamp Tubes:

12AX7- Telefunken, Siemens, Tungsram, RCA, Sylvania, Phillips, Mullard, Amperex, Raytheon, RFT, GE, Tesla and there are some others as well. Telefunken is generally regarded as the best sounding preamp tube ever made.

[Paul Marossy]

These are my opinions.


New manufacture power tubes:

6L6GC- Svetlana
EL-34- J&J

Sovtek 5881's are pretty rugged, and can take a lot of abuse, but IMO, they suck tone wise. A NOS Tung-Sol might not sound that bad, I never heard of anyone using them, though. Sovtek's power tubes reliability is questionable. Seems like every quad set I've had from them has had one bad tube in it. The Sovtek EL-34s are horrible, ratty sounding.

J&J is the resurrected Tesla factory in Czechoslavakia.

Some people really like Ruby Tubes, made in China. No experience with them.


NOS Power Tubes: (6L6GC, EL-34)

Mullard, RCA, Sylvania, Phillips and others.


New manufacture preamp tubes:

12AX7- Svetlana or J&J, maybe EI
Sovtek Hi-Mu 12AX7LPS's are satisfactory, but not as good as NOS.
EI tubes are made in Yugoslavia to Phillips specs, using old Phillips equipment.


NOS Preamp Tubes:

12AX7- Telefunken, Siemens, Tungsram, RCA, Sylvania, Phillips, Mullard, Amperex, Raytheon, RFT, GE, Tesla and there are some others as well. Telefunken is generally regarded as the best sounding preamp tube ever made.