How Do I Tell If My Transistors Are Broken? (Green Ringer)

[Josh?]

Hi everyone!
I'm currently troubleshooting a vero clone of the Green Ringer (using this layout: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2016/11/earthquaker-devices-tentacle.html).  It was great on breadboard, but now that I've soldered it onto the veroboard, all I get is a dry signal that sometimes sounds slightly fuzzy when I play chords.  I've tested all my connections and component values/ placements, and triple-checked the orientations of all my transistors and diodes, which leads me to think I broke one or more transistors while soldering.

I've measured the voltages from each pin of each transistor and diode to ground as recommended somewhere on this forum (see below), but how do I use this information to determine whether any of my transistors are broken? (or whether any are in the wrong way, 'cause even though I've checked half a million times, I'm still fairly new to this ) Thank you!

Here are my voltages:
Q1 (2n5089)
     C: 5.88v
     B: 1.98v
     E: 1.45v
Q2 (2n3906)
     C: 2.78v
     B: 5.89v
     E: 6.52v
Q3 (2n5089)
     C: 9.33v
     B: 3.81v
     E: 3.30v
And my 1n4148 diodes as well, just in case:
D1 (From Q2 Collector)
     Anode:    1.44v
     Cathode: 3.82v
D1 (From Q2 Emitter)
     Anode:    4.11v
     Cathode: 3.82v

Thank you again!
          -Josh

[MaxPower]

I tried the green ringer once,  didn't work for me.

Anyway, for npn transistors the emitter is usually about 0.6  volts lower than the base voltage. For pnp it's usually the opposite. So your measurements look ok.

If your meter has a diode test option you can try that (with the power off).

From what I remember, the symmetrical parts (diodes and their associated resistors) have to be closely matched.

[thermionix]

Can you post pictures of your board, front and back?

[Josh?]

Oookay, my board is gonna take some explaining. Sorry in advance .

I don't have veroboard long enough for the original layout, so I redesigned the layout for the size I have, and even though it's all over the place, it 100% matches the original circuit, except for two places where series resistors add to the correct values and an extra electrolytic cap (the brown one) that will go in series with a pot to ground to get more gain, but is currently not connected.

Before you ask, the effect worked great on the breadboard with the same series resistors as well as with or without the cap mod. I have quadruple checked both the connections and the layout on this board, and can't find anything wrong there.

Sorry for the long post and thank you for being willing to help! Here are the pictures (I hope they're not too grainy; it's a phone camera):

[stringsthings]

Have you made yourself an audio probe?

[Andrekp]

My recollection from building this is that it still works - only wrongly - when it doesn't work.  Which is both confusing and oddly worded I know.  What I am saying is that you can have an issue, but it still makes sound as if it's working.  It makes it odd to troubleshoot.  But when it starts doing it's thing, you'll know.  I assume you matched the appropriate components.   

I don't remember what my problem was, but 99% of the time with verified vero layouts, provided you've make all the proper cuts and links, it's a solder bridge.  I could count on one hand the times when it was something else.  I know you are using your own layout for this, so it's not exactly the verified one, but ASSUMING you translated it OK to your size needs, I'd be looking for solder bridges.

[Josh?]

Have you made yourself an audio probe?

No, I just used a dmm to check that there were connections where I wanted and not where i didn't want.  The audio probe seems very useful for diagnosing by ear though, so I'll try that sometime soon. Thanks!

My recollection from building this is that it still works - only wrongly - when it doesn't work.  Which is both confusing and oddly worded I know.  What I am saying is that you can have an issue, but it still makes sound as if it's working.  It makes it odd to troubleshoot.  But when it starts doing it's thing, you'll know.  I assume you matched the appropriate components.   

I don't remember what my problem was, but 99% of the time with verified vero layouts, provided you've make all the proper cuts and links, it's a solder bridge.  I could count on one hand the times when it was something else.  I know you are using your own layout for this, so it's not exactly the verified one, but ASSUMING you translated it OK to your size needs, I'd be looking for solder bridges.

Well, I guess I'll need to check both the layout and any bridges again . Thank you for your help, and hopefully I can find my problem soon, cause I heard it do its thing on breadboard, and I really liked the sound.

[Josh?]

Even though bad parts have been pretty much ruled out by now, I'm interested in learning how much heat it takes to break common ic's, transistors, diodes, etc. to prevent as many future mistakes as possible. Does anyone know if there's some sort of heat threshold for any common parts?

[Marcos - Munky]

Build yourself an audio probe. It's easy, just an piece of cable (or jack) and a 100nF cap. It'll help you to find the problem. A lot of times is something easy to fix.

About heat threshold, well, caps and resistors can take a lot of heat. For transistors and ICs I hold them with my fingers and don't solder them if they're a little hot. But they can take more heat than that. Once you get good with soldering, you'll be able to do a transistor before it heats up.

Also, are veroboad really necessary?

[stringsthings]

One trick I used when I started out was to use a small heat sink on transistors.
You can use a small alligator clip.  Also, I don't recommend soldering in IC's. 
Sockets, sockets, sockets.  YMMV

[Marcos - Munky]

There's pros and cons on soldering in ICs and sockets. I usually go with this:

- ICs I may have to swap for another ones: socket.
- unverified layout: socket.
- easily damageable ICs (cmos for example): socket.
- rare ICs (like BBDs): socket.
- builds where there's no space to waste (some 1590A builds, for example): no socket.
- verified layout AND cheap ICs that I have a good number of spares: no socket.
- if the last two ones conflicts with the "socket" ones: socket.

Basically, go with sockets, unless you really can't do it.

[EBK]

One trick I used when I started out was to use a small heat sink on transistors.
You can use a small alligator clip.

I've always thought of the oft-repeated alligator clip heatsink advice as a measure that provides confidence without providing protection.  Am I wrong?
I mean, you're essentially relying on thermal conduction over a very very tiny contact area as the primary means of sinking heat, right?  Can it possibly make a measurable difference?

[stallik]

One trick I used when I started out was to use a small heat sink on transistors.
You can use a small alligator clip.

Can it possibly make a measurable difference?

I've got a little alluminium pair of sprung tweezers with a tiny point of contact. It gets quite warm so, probably yes

[ElectricDruid]

I mean, you're essentially relying on thermal conduction over a very very tiny contact area as the primary means of sinking heat, right?  Can it possibly make a measurable difference?

Yes, absolutely. It makes a big difference.

My certainty about this comes from having tried to do it in the *opposite* direction lots of times. If you try to desolder a component while holding one of its leads with pliers, all you're doing is trying to warm up some pliers with a soldering iron, and *good luck with that!* Unless you've got a heavy duty iron, you'd better heat up the joint and the component, and then pull it out with the pliers while it's hot, because as soon as you touch it with those cold pliers, it's going to go solid again very quickly.

If you don't believe me, try it. It's a simple experiment to make. The heatsink makes a *massive* difference.

T.

[thermionix]

I think I still have some of those aluminum heat sink clips in the bottom of one of my tool boxes.  I never use them.

[Josh?]

AAAAAHH I'm an idiot . I forgot to make exactly one cut on my veroboard, and my guess is the unwanted connection was making the flipped signal really quiet, so I only got my dry signal through to the diode stage.  I fixed that and soldered up some weak connections, and now it works absolutely perfectly.  Thank you for your help everyone!

Also, I can 100% recommend the cap mod at https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=119174.0 (Thank you Mark Hammer) and putting a voltage starve pot (about 50k was great for me) from the power supply to the +v in, to make the effect EVEN MORE gated. It sounds like a duck farting lazers!

Thank you again for all of your help, everyone, and where is the proper place to show my pictures off once I finish the enclosure?

[duck_arse]

.... It sounds like a duck farting lazers! .....

I like the sound of this. AND - seeing as no-one else has yet said, welcome to the forum.

[Josh?]

Haha thank you!

[Marcos - Munky]

Nice thing you got it working! Some times, it's an simple detail we didn't noticed that prevents the effect from working, and an easy fix.

[Andrekp]

AAAAAHH I'm an idiot . I forgot to make exactly one cut on my veroboard, and my guess is the unwanted connection was making the flipped signal really quiet, so I only got my dry signal through to the diode stage.  I fixed that and soldered up some weak connections, and now it works absolutely perfectly.  Thank you for your help everyone!

Also, I can 100% recommend the cap mod at https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=119174.0 (Thank you Mark Hammer) and putting a voltage starve pot (about 50k was great for me) from the power supply to the +v in, to make the effect EVEN MORE gated. It sounds like a duck farting lazers!

Thank you again for all of your help, everyone, and where is the proper place to show my pictures off once I finish the enclosure?

Glad you have it working!  As I said, it "works" (makes sound) even when it doesn't work, so it can be confusing.

Not nearly as confusing as the idea that you know what it sounds like to hear a duck farting lasers, but that's a conversation for another day...

As I recall, I also used schottkey diodes, which increased the effect.