Can you play guitar through a smoke alarm?

[moid]

Hello everyone

I've been away from this forum for a very long time sadly (work and personal problems alas). Anyway I have this month off work and am determined to make something electronic (haven't touched a soldering iron in 12 months ). While doing some maintenance around my house I had to replace two smoke alarms / smoke detectors, and being the odd person I am, I thought I'd look inside one of them before I threw it away. It looks to me that the sound part of a smoke alarm (or at least the two dead ones I have) is some sort of piezo disc (see below picture please). I'm wondering if I could take some sort of simple boost circuit and put it into that piezo disc (I know the sound will be lo fi)... but maybe attach that to the inside of a large metal tin with a contact mic at the other end of the tin and somehow pick up the sound and send it to an amplifier so I can hear it? In my mind this would make a really cheap distorted plate reverb... how silly is this idea?

I know the smoke detector I have was running on 3v so I'd need a boost circuit that would run at 3v (any suggestions?)

Also in the image of the guts of the smoke alarm the piezo has three cables, I assume red is power, black is ground and yellow is the audio?



Hope you are enjoying your Summer and not suffering from too much of a heatwave.

[Marcos - Munky]

Don't know on a reverb plate, but there was a nice topic on a spring reverb some time ago here in the forum.

Here's the link: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=120207.0

[DDD]

I do prefer to play my guitar through microwave oven.
Smoke alarms are too trebly usually.

[PRR]

Many smoke alarms have a radioactive canister. Do Not Open This!! Be very careful how you dispose of it. Most areas have a Hazardous Waste process which routinely take whole smoke-alarms; I do not know if they know how to handle just the radioactive canister.

The peeper is a stock part in many-many devices and toys. Also readily available from e-stores.

The peeper is a One-Note device. That note is near some high harmonic of guitar. It is not even a semi-tone wide.

You can probably make it peep. I can't imagine any music from it.

[thermionix]

The SMD smoke alarms just don't have the tone.  Look for the through-hole type, MIJ if you can find it.

[EBK]

Many smoke alarms have a radioactive canister. Do Not Open This!! Be very careful how you dispose of it. Most areas have a Hazardous Waste process which routinely take whole smoke-alarms; I do not know if they know how to handle just the radioactive canister.

Also, if you haven't read the story of the Radioactive Boy Scout, I'd recommend that you do, but only because it is a quite fascinating read.  That guy, among other things, acquired hundreds of smoke detectors, and removed the radioactive elements in an effort to build his own nuclear reactor in a shed behind his house.

http://harpers.org/archive/1998/11/the-radioactive-boy-scout/?single=1

[antonis]

@Martin: I find your idea to substitute those #$%@ alarm "beeps" with some fuzzy rifs interesting enough.. !! 
(at least, if your house is about to be set alight, let it be in an amusing manner..)

[italianguy63]

@Martin: I find your idea to substitute those #$%@ alarm "beeps" with some fuzzy rifs interesting enough.. !! 
(at least, if your house is about to be set alight, let it be in an amusing manner..)

Starting with the ditty "The Roof is on Fire"

Burn that MF down!!

[duck_arse]

I'd think maybe "purple haze", or "smoke on the water" should work ok. dunno how you'd convert the guit sig to smoke sig, tho, you might need a supply of majik blue smoke.

[anotherjim]

One of my neighbours is a guitarist. He habitually uses his smoke alarm to tell everybody when his dinner is cooked.

The alarms are great things. Trouble is, if they start misbehaving, they get disabled or thrown away.

The Piezo could be used to excite some medium with audio vibrations, not as efficiently as one of those contact speakers would, but some. Try using in place of the speaker with a little 386 type amp. For more output, I would try bridge driving it from CMOS inverters - you don't need a DC blocking capacitor with these things. It would be distorted as hell, but that could be the fun of it.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Just want you all to know....

This thread made my day!   

[Ice-9]

@Martin: I find your idea to substitute those #$%@ alarm "beeps" with some fuzzy rifs interesting enough.. !! 
(at least, if your house is about to be set alight, let it be in an amusing manner..)

Starting with the ditty "The Roof is on Fire"

Burn that MF down!!

Oh Yes ! I would buy a smoke alarm that had Jim Morrison chanting out.
"Come on baby  light my fire, try to set the house on fire......"


I'm not sure how handy your smoke alarm would be but there are some smd parts on there worth removing and keeping for other uses. Remove the little sticker from the main IC it is possibly a PIC or Atmel micro which could be useful.

[stallik]

Also in the image of the guts of the smoke alarm the piezo has three cables, I assume red is power, black is ground and yellow is the audio?

3 terminal piezo sounders are self driven and in this application form part of the oscillator circuit. it will automatically work at its resonant frequency giving the loudest sound. Black is ground, Yellow input and red is feedback. Can't see it replacing a Celestion any time soon

[moid]

First of all, thank you very much for the warm welcome; I was slightly concerned that my (daft) question would be met with the sound of tumbleweed in the wind, so thank you everyone for your comments.

Don't know on a reverb plate, but there was a nice topic on a spring reverb some time ago here in the forum.

Here's the link: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=120207.0

I hadn't ever considered a spring reverb, I will have a read and a listen of this, thanks.

I do prefer to play my guitar through microwave oven.
Smoke alarms are too trebly usually.

Hmmm so some way of adding back the bass could be important.. now you've got me thinking about that old vacuum cleaner in the garage

Many smoke alarms have a radioactive canister. Do Not Open This!! Be very careful how you dispose of it. Most areas have a Hazardous Waste process which routinely take whole smoke-alarms; I do not know if they know how to handle just the radioactive canister.

The peeper is a stock part in many-many devices and toys. Also readily available from e-stores.

The peeper is a One-Note device. That note is near some high harmonic of guitar. It is not even a semi-tone wide.

You can probably make it peep. I can't imagine any music from it.

Thanks PRR for some rather sensible advice! I had at least read about the insides of smoke alarms before I started getting enthusiastic... I've no idea if mine contains such exotic components (warning labels? Who needs 'em?) however that part of the smoke detector is in a sealed unit that I will leave well alone. OK it looks like the peeper will be useless then... I assumed it wouldn't have the widest tonal range, but if it was designed to only play two similar pitches I guess all functionality for other possible music will have been left out of the specification to make it as cheap as possible. Ah well, I'll keep them for some weird future use... they'll go in my miscellaneous parts drawer then - there'll be a use for them someday

The SMD smoke alarms just don't have the tone.  Look for the through-hole type, MIJ if you can find it.

I shall return to the DIY store and demand handwired germanium NOS boutique detectors to complement my sonic enjoyment of their minimalist sound palette - thanks for warning me, I could easily have made a rookie mistake there.

Also, if you haven't read the story of the Radioactive Boy Scout, I'd recommend that you do, but only because it is a quite fascinating read.  That guy, among other things, acquired hundreds of smoke detectors, and removed the radioactive elements in an effort to build his own nuclear reactor in a shed behind his house.

http://harpers.org/archive/1998/11/the-radioactive-boy-scout/?single=1

Wow, that was quite an eye opening read! I don't have any interest in that sort of experiment

@Martin: I find your idea to substitute those #$%@ alarm "beeps" with some fuzzy rifs interesting enough.. !! 
(at least, if your house is about to be set alight, let it be in an amusing manner..)

It's about time we had custom smoke detector signal loops I think Those things are loud enough to give you tinnitus, they should at least be playing something fairly rock while they do so!

Starting with the ditty "The Roof is on Fire"

Burn that MF down!!

I was thinking more of Hendrix's House Burning Down, for a classier tone

I'd think maybe "purple haze", or "smoke on the water" should work ok. dunno how you'd convert the guit sig to smoke sig, tho, you might need a supply of majik blue smoke.

Would I get that from the store that sells me camouflage paint and glass hammers? I'm sure they'd have a can of it Hello Duck, long time no see!

One of my neighbours is a guitarist. He habitually uses his smoke alarm to tell everybody when his dinner is cooked.

The alarms are great things. Trouble is, if they start misbehaving, they get disabled or thrown away.

The Piezo could be used to excite some medium with audio vibrations, not as efficiently as one of those contact speakers would, but some. Try using in place of the speaker with a little 386 type amp. For more output, I would try bridge driving it from CMOS inverters - you don't need a DC blocking capacitor with these things. It would be distorted as hell, but that could be the fun of it.

OK so it might be worth giving it a blast then? Thanks for the suggestion!

Just want you all to know....

This thread made my day!   

Well I like to keep my audience riveted And I assumed that no one else would ask dumb ass questions if I wasn't around, and a little bit of bizarre humour is a great way to start the day... I see myself as an instigator of other people's amusement... or maybe an agent of chaos?

Oh Yes ! I would buy a smoke alarm that had Jim Morrison chanting out.
"Come on baby  light my fire, try to set the house on fire......"

I'm not sure how handy your smoke alarm would be but there are some smd parts on there worth removing and keeping for other uses. Remove the little sticker from the main IC it is possibly a PIC or Atmel micro which could be useful.

Damn, I'd forgotten the Doors, of course Jim Morrison intoning This is the End would be the perfect, slightly more relaxed way to experience the disaster of a house being on fire

I removed the sticker from the IC and it's completely blank underneath - no idea what it is. Thanks for the suggestion though. I doubt I'd be able to desolder it without nuking the chip though. I'll have the red capacitor; that's easy to get off.

Also in the image of the guts of the smoke alarm the piezo has three cables, I assume red is power, black is ground and yellow is the audio?

3 terminal piezo sounders are self driven and in this application form part of the oscillator circuit. it will automatically work at its resonant frequency giving the loudest sound. Black is ground, Yellow input and red is feedback. Can't see it replacing a Celestion any time soon

Thanks for that - I assumed it would be rather lo fi and not the most Dumble of tones but I thought it might be interesting... it might be worth trying as an experiment. If it didn't work I could always try replacing it with a small speaker and put sound through that into the metal tin and then pick it up via the contact mic - I'd still need a 386 amplifier circuit so it wouldn't be much difficulty to swap things around.

[stringsthings]

Getting back to the original question asked:

the short answer would be:  no, you cannot

[PRR]

There's two main kinds of "fire alarms" in my area (country).

*) Actual smoke detectors. Shine a light through some distance and measure the brightness. Smoke makes it dimmer. Tricky to compensate for dust, aging, etc, but do-able.

*) Ionization detectors. Fire makes ions. An air chamber of clean air has low conductance; with ionized air *and* a small radioactive source it conducts more. This is easy to detect with MOSFET devices. This is by far the most common here.

Both are available and desirable--- one works quicker, the other may sense slow-smolders that the other does not. Of course either or any is better than none.

The radioactive is super-small and sealed and NO danger in a wall/ceiling mount alarm, or to carry store to home and home to proper disposal. But don't mess with it.

[duck_arse]

Quote from: stallik on Yesterday at 07:11:01
Quote
Also in the image of the guts of the smoke alarm the piezo has three cables, I assume red is power, black is ground and yellow is the audio?

3 terminal piezo sounders are self driven and in this application form part of the oscillator circuit. it will automatically work at its resonant frequency giving the loudest sound. Black is ground, Yellow input and red is feedback. Can't see it replacing a Celestion any time soon

Thanks for that - I assumed it would be rather lo fi and not the most Dumble of tones but I thought it might be interesting... it might be worth trying as an experiment. If it didn't work I could always try replacing it with a small speaker and put sound through that into the metal tin and then pick it up via the contact mic - I'd still need a 386 amplifier circuit so it wouldn't be much difficulty to swap things around.

hey hey, moiders, you ever get that landgraff thing working?

about the three wires - just use two wires at a time, black and yellow would be the more Dumble/Celestion of the combos, but you might get some squeaky highs using the black and red. red and yellow? unmapped behaviour.

[moid]

There's two main kinds of "fire alarms" in my area (country).

*) Actual smoke detectors. Shine a light through some distance and measure the brightness. Smoke makes it dimmer. Tricky to compensate for dust, aging, etc, but do-able.

*) Ionization detectors. Fire makes ions. An air chamber of clean air has low conductance; with ionized air *and* a small radioactive source it conducts more. This is easy to detect with MOSFET devices. This is by far the most common here.

Both are available and desirable--- one works quicker, the other may sense slow-smolders that the other does not. Of course either or any is better than none.

The radioactive is super-small and sealed and NO danger in a wall/ceiling mount alarm, or to carry store to home and home to proper disposal. But don't mess with it.

Thanks PRR - I'll make sure to avoid snacking on its moreish charms then Pretty sure mine will be the second of the two types you mention.

hey hey, moiders, you ever get that landgraff thing working?

about the three wires - just use two wires at a time, black and yellow would be the more Dumble/Celestion of the combos, but you might get some squeaky highs using the black and red. red and yellow? unmapped behaviour.

Sadly I haven't done a thing since last September... we had to look after an elderly relative who became terminally ill and passed away just after Christmas, and all my tools and equipment (and space) were boxed up to make way for rather more essential medical supplies at the time and work was also pretty hideous this year so everything has been in a collection of cardboard boxes in a corner... I opened it up a couple of days ago to discover that leaving breadboard circuits in that condition for a year is a huge mistake - cables have fallen out, I've no idea what half of it does anymore and I seem to have lost many tools as well... so I'm hoping to get some time to start having another go at those circuits I was playing with last September. The current heatwave here isn't helping much (probably an average day for you down under types, but it's melting my brain; I was never bred to withstand 33 degrees centigrade!). I've found my soldering iron, so that's a start, I need to go and buy some new side cutters (they've vanished) and then stare at some of the weird diagrams I made of circuits and try to remember what bits of it all means!

So I'd attach the black wire to ground and the yellow to the audio output of a 386 amplifier circuit yes? Hopefully I will get some time on Sunday to look at this (my son's birthday party is tomorrow so hordes of relatives will descend upon us and there's no way I'll get anything done except clean up and feed people that day!). Thanks for the encouragement I hope you've been well.

Would this circuit do for an lm386 amplifier? It seems ridiculously simple to me...

http://www.otalgia.co.uk/tag/lm386





And presumably put a pot on the output audio cable (lug 3) to act as a volume control with the wiper making the final connection to the piezo disc?

[diffeq]

And presumably put a pot on the output audio cable (lug 3) to act as a volume control with the wiper making the final connection to the piezo disc?

Put volume  potentiometer on the input. See Fig. 10 of this document http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm386.pdf
Note the 0.05uF cap + 10R resistor combo from output to ground to suppress oscillation. LM386 tends to oscillate without it, but maybe that's what you might have fun with. 

[ElectricDruid]

One thing that I can't see mentioned anywhere is that a piezo "sounder" can be used in reverse as a piezo *mic*. They make excellent drum triggers. You attach them (glue) to the surface of your drum and then when you whack it, you get a big signal at a fairly consistent frequency and at a volume dependent on how hard you hit it. You can then use your favourite envelope follower design to produce a volume envelope, or use a trigger circuit to trigger a drum sound generator, or some mixture of both.

Given that it isn't going to be putting Celestion out of business any time soon, perhaps that's a better use for it.

T.