Modding vero vs Modding Perf

[Killthepopular]

I haven't built my own pedal yet but when i buy pedals i like to mod them. It seems a lot of manufacturers use SMD these days which i understand is a lot trickier to mod. One of the main things that appeals to me about DIY pedals is knowing i'll be able to mod the pedal once I've made it.

I was just wondering if one type of board is easier to mod than the other. I find with the PCBs on my boss pedals, the flimsy traces can get a bit worn and break away if i'm repeatedly trying lots of components in the same hole.

How do perfboard and vero board compare for swapping out parts? I probably wouldn't need to completely change the layout of a board, i'd just like a board where it would be easy and safe for me to do loads of resoldering and swapping out loads of components, general tinkering.

[Fabeii]

Lots of peps prefer Vero-board because once you find a good layout you just solder components in place following the picture and the traces on veros are solid and thick.

I really enjoy perf instead. I do all the traces with spare leads from components and just solder stuff after that, so it's more like a pcb. Like these: https://pfx-journal.blogspot.com/2017/07/perfboard-tutorial.html

It's trickier but I like it more.

Most important things imho: the best way to easily swap components it's to use sockets. You can socket everything, for real, and when you are sure solder the compenent, even just one lead, to the socket. Easy peasy!

[EBK]

If you are into modding, the most useful bit of advice regarding vero and maybe perf (depending on whether it is the type with pads or not) that I can think of is: avoid phenolic resin boards.  Sure, they are cheaper, easier to cut, and give off that sweet formaldehyde smell when heated, but the pads will break or lift off of the board too easily when desoldering/resoldering.

[anotherjim]

Any kind of construction can be damaged by frequent changes. Between vero and perf, they can both easily lose track/pad adhesion - but the damage is easier to live with on perf since the pads aren't part of a circuit connection between things.
If you have an idea of what you might mod (frequently it's capacitor or resistor value or diode type), fit header pins or sockets so the tracks/pads themselves are free from wear & tear. IC's and transistors can be socketed anyway as a matter of policy.

[blackieNYC]

The thing to avoid is the perf that has no pads at all.  It requires you to twist leads together, which is much more difficult to undo. (Edit: Paul is right, "twist" is a bit extreme but it does get messy quick)
If you use pad-per-hole, I don't think you need to twist component leads. Just have them meet at the pad. As you assemble and solder, think "can I undo this?"

[PRR]

> the perf that has no pads at all.  It requires you to twist leads together

No. Don't twist. Just bend over and make a good over-lap solder joint. With our small/light parts, this will be robust enough for most road-trips, yet very easily un-done.

This does violate Best Practice for NASA, Military, and commercial work (solder does not carry mechanical loads well). When you prepare your 99-countries 999-stop round the world tour, you want to re-build in more solid form.

[reddesert]

Desoldering sucks, no matter what substrate. The good thing about building your own pedal on vero, perf, and even (sort of) a PCB, is that you can design it with future mods in mind. Thus, you can leave extra space for adding components if you need to desolder or clip something out and wind up messing up a hole. You can use sockets to allow for easy change of a component that you are most likely to swap out, then when you are happy with the value, use glue or solder to hold the component in place. And so on.

[iainpunk]

If you are into modding, the most useful bit of advice regarding vero and maybe perf (depending on whether it is the type with pads or bot) that I can think of is: avoid phenolic resin boards.  Sure, they are cheaper, easier to cut, and give off that sweet formaldehyde smell when heated, but the pads will break or lift off of the board too easily when desoldering/resoldering.

But those phenolic resin boards are where its at, tonewise. According to several guitarist and audiophiles i spoke, those boards really sound better then fibre glass boards, lol.
Yeah, i really don't understand why they would think that, but it never fails to make me laugh out loud when its mentioned.

[ljudsystem]

If you are into modding, the most useful bit of advice regarding vero and maybe perf (depending on whether it is the type with pads or bot) that I can think of is: avoid phenolic resin boards.  Sure, they are cheaper, easier to cut, and give off that sweet formaldehyde smell when heated, but the pads will break or lift off of the board too easily when desoldering/resoldering.

But those phenolic resin boards are where its at, tonewise. According to several guitarist and audiophiles i spoke, those boards really sound better then fibre glass boards, lol.
Yeah, i really don't understand why they would think that, but it never fails to make me laugh out loud when its mentioned.

Wait... that's a joke right? Are there really people who think that?

[EBK]

But those phenolic resin boards are where its at, tonewise. According to several guitarist and audiophiles i spoke, those boards really sound better then fibre glass boards, lol.
Yeah, i really don't understand why they would think that, but it never fails to make me laugh out loud when its mentioned.

Wait... that's a joke right? Are there really people who think that?

Many audiophiles will believe anything you can sell them.  If you tell them that phenolic resin boards reduce vibrational coupling between components, thus reducing transduced noise (I just made that up, but it almost sounds believable as long as you don't try to back it up with numbers, right? ), you can charge twice the price and they'll buy. 

[digi2t]

But those phenolic resin boards are where its at, tonewise. According to several guitarist and audiophiles i spoke, those boards really sound better then fibre glass boards, lol.
Yeah, i really don't understand why they would think that, but it never fails to make me laugh out loud when its mentioned.

Wait... that's a joke right? Are there really people who think that?

Many audiophiles will believe anything you can sell them.  If you tell them that phenolic resin boards reduce vibrational coupling between components, thus reducing transduced noise (I just made that up, but it almost sounds believable as long as you don't try to back it up with numbers, right? ), you can charge twice the price and they'll buy.

Yup. And when you hit 88MHz, you jump into another tonal dimension.

[Killthepopular]

Would it be fair to say that vero and perf circuits are both more resistant to the wear and tear of repeated soldering than PCBs are?

[EBK]

Would it be fair to say that vero and perf circuits are both more resistant to the wear and tear of repeated soldering than PCBs are?

They could be, but I wouldn't categorically say so.  Many variables involved (width and thickness of copper, choice of substrate material, and probably a bunch of other things too).

The single biggest factor will probably be soldering/desoldering skill (and temperature -- you can do a lot of damage with an iron that is too cold or too hot).